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Comment by quentindanjou | Hacker News Reader

> Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them.

This is not totally true. It is also a US issue: CBP has been asking for passwords (or to unlock the device) for phones and computers for more than a year now. Last year, multiple people got turned around because they disagreed with US policies and political views that differ from those of the US's current president.

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I don't approve of CBP's approach here, but being denied entry to the country isn't punishment, even if it might feel like it at the time. And that only applies to non-citizens, where entry is fairly reasonably at the government's discretion. Citizens must be admitted regardless.

Rules at the border tend to be pretty restrictive almost everywhere. You can literally get in trouble for having a sandwich in your bag. I'd wager Hong Kong border control was also empowered to request phone passwords and turn away refusers long before this change.

Do you ever travel outside your own country? Do you think you should retain some basic privacy rights while you do that?

It’s not even good for business. Business laptops and phones have trade secrets to conduct regular company activities.

Normalizing the surveillance dystopia we live in ON HN is beyond my understanding.

I travel a fair amount. I understand that my rights at a border are just about none, especially my right to enter the country, aside from the country where I have citizenship. I know that pretty much anywhere I travel, they can search my belongings, search me, and send me home for almost any reason they wish.

As I said, I don't agree with it, but it's normal and has been for longer than anyone here has been alive.

>Do you ever travel outside your own country? Do you think you should retain some basic privacy rights while you do that?

You already don't. Even in countries with protections against arbitrary search and seizure, those go out the window when you're at the border. "No" isn't a valid response if border agents wants to search your luggage.

You don't have the protections of U.S. law at the border.

CBP is also asking, not compelling. You don't have to give them your password. If you don't, and you're a foreigner, you may be turned away. If you're a citizen, and I remember correctly, they can seize your device for up to two days if they want.

But they're not going to put you in prison for refusing like the U.K. and Hong Kong will.

CBP has absolutely put me in jail (not prison) for refusing to answer questions (including the strip search and being put in chains and handcuffs). As well as threatening to revoke my passport (though they could not). On another occasion they threatened to deport me even though I'm a US citizen. On yet another, they faked a drug dog hit then dragged me to multiple hospitals, racking up bills in my name while claiming I was packing drugs up my ass. I am still being chased by debt collectors for the last one.

I've contacted multiple lawyers and the answer got was they've tried cases like these before and they always lose so they don't take them anymore. Though this was pre-Trump, now it's suddenly in vogue to take up longshot border or immigration cases.

That sucks. You were wronged, and I hope you get justice.

In the U.K. or Hong Kong, "justice" would entail prison.

You dont have protectiond of US law on the border, inside the border and barely if you are a citizen far away from border. Realistically.

And also actually per law. And yes, being forced to give out passwords and make profiles public as a rputine thing is much worst then being forced to give out password when there is actual warrant.

If you're a US citizen, I believe they can seize your device indefinitely, and detain you for up to two days. They are required to let you eventually back into the country though.

(If you're not a citizen, all bets are off)

Here's what the ACLU says:

https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agen...

I think the 48h detention is across the board (without a judge involved, border or not the border). ACLU says device seizure is up to 5 days barring "extenuating circumstances", whatever that means.

The same article says they can fairly arbitrarily do repeated 7-day extensions. And:

> We’ve received reports of phones being held for weeks or even months.

> Last year, multiple people got turned around because they disagreed with US policies and political views

so they were not in US technically?

Exactly, everything is in "technically" because, for example, to the best of my knowledge, JFK airport is located in the US.

There are plenty of articles that actually explain that the practice is illegal, but the gov doesn't really care about its legality + there is no organization able to fight it, and even if there were, the Supreme Court would likely be in favor of the US gov.

What is private life if it can be broken for no reason? What is freedom of speech if it doesn't apply to the people who don't agree with you?

not sure if you travel much but you're not legally in the country until you passed immigration

> What is private life if it can be broken for no reason? What is freedom of speech if it doesn't apply to the people who don't agree with you?

totally but that's a different thing a little

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