Modern LLMs, just like everyone reading this, will instead reach for a calculator to perform such tasks. I can't do that in my head either, but a python script can so that's what any tool-using LLM will (and should) do.
Long multiplication is a trivial form of reasoning that is taught at elementary level. Furthermore, the LLM isn't doing things "in its head" - the headline feature of GPT LLMs is attention across all previous tokens, all of its "thoughts" are on paper. That was Opus with extended reasoning, it had all the opportunity to get it right, but didn't. There are people who can quickly multiply such numbers in their head (I am not one of them).
LLMs don't reason.
Thinking that LLMs are intelligent arises from an incomplete understanding of how they work or, alternatively, having shareholders to keep happy.
LOL, talk about special pleading. Whatever it takes to reshape the argument into one you can win, I guess...
LLMs don't reason.
Let's see you do that multiplication in your head. Then, when you fail, we'll conclude you don't reason. Sound fair?
The LLMs also have access to a scratch pad. And importantly don’t know when they need to use it (as in, they will sometimes get long multiplication right if you ask them to show their work but if you don’t ask them to they will almost certainly get it wrong).
patently false, but hey at least you’re able to see the parallel between you with a scratch pad and an LLM with a python terminal
https://chatgpt.com/s/t_69c420f3118081919cf525123e39598c
https://chatgpt.com/s/t_69c4215daeb481919fdaf22498fb0c4f
Do you have a different definition of false? I'm referring to their reasoning context as their scratch pad if that wasn't clear.
Also, see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
"Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."
Don't be curmudgeonly. Thoughtful criticism is fine, but please don't be rigidly or generically negative."
etc.
Reasoning isn't a binary switch. It's a multidimensional continuum. AI can clearly reason to some extent even if it also clearly doesn't reason in the same way that a human would.
I just pointed out that this isn't valid reasoning ... it's a fallacy of denial of the antecedent. No one is arguing that because LLMs can't do arithmetic, therefore they can't reason. After all, zamalek said that he can't quickly multiply large numbers in his head, but he isn't saying that therefore he can't reason.
> Reasoning isn't a binary switch. It's a multidimensional continuum.
Indeed, and a lot of humans are very bad at it, as is clear from the comments I'm responding to.
> AI can clearly reason to some extent
The claim was about LLMs, not AI. This is like if someone said that chihuahuas are little and someone responded by saying that dogs are tall to some extent.
LLMs do not reason ... they do syntactic pattern matching. The appearance of reasoning is because of all the reasoning by humans that is implicit in the training data.
I've had this argument too many times ... it never goes anywhere. So I won't respond again ... over and out.
This is your idea of "conversing curiously" and "editing out swipes," I suppose.
I've had this argument too many times ... it never goes anywhere. So I won't respond again ... over and out.
A real reasoning entity might pause for self-examination here. Maybe run its chain of thought for a few more iterations, or spend some tokens calling research tools. Just to probe the apparent mismatch between its own priors and those of "a lot of humans," most of whom are not, in fact, morons.
Yes, they should, but instead we're stuck with the stochastic-parrot crowd, who log onto HN and try their best to emulate a stochastic parrot.
presumably one of us is wrong.
therefore, humans don't reason.
when someone says LLMs today they obviously mean software that does more than just text, if you want to be extra pedantic you can even say LLMs by themselves can’t even geenrate text since they are just model files if you don’t add them to a “system” that makes use of that model files, doh
LLMs, if the someone is me or others who understand why it's important to be precise. And in this context, the distinction between LLM and AI mattered--not pedantic at all.
I won't respond further ... over and out.