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Comment by password54321 | Hacker News Reader

>a defeat for Israel

False, Israel has used the whole war to take over Lebanon almost silently from mass media attention. They are about to annex a part of it.

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> False, Israel has used the whole war to take over Lebanon almost silently from mass media attention.

i wonder why you think mass media attention would matter.

If public opinion didn't matter on geopolitics we wouldn't see massive astroturfing campaigns across the internet.

maybe. that's a fair point. public opinion has moved away from israel so even the mass media in america might be a little less generous to israel, which would turn even more people away from israel.

They are at war because Hezbollah attacked... again.

Let me repeat: They are about to annex a sovereign nation while reducing the capital city to rubble. May or may not remind you of another country further north.

> remind you of another country further north

It would remind me of that if Ukraine attacked first... over and over again throughout the last decades... together with it's allies in the region... occasionally abducting a few hundred Russia civilians... there is no parallel here.

Lebanon is not Hezbollah.

One may argue that Lebanon is already annexed by Iran using Hezbollah which has more power than the official Lebanon government or at least had more power before attacks from Israel in recent years. Also I don't beleive Israel is going to annex Lebanon but they may create a buffer zone in the south of the country.

>One may argue that Lebanon is already annexed by Iran

No one serious is arguing this. Total nonsense as far as anyone in Lebanon is concerned.

>I don't beleive Israel is going to annex Lebanon but they may create a buffer zone in the south of the country.

So they are going to annex but under a different term. Got it.

> Lebanon is already annexed by Iran using Hezbollah which has more power than the official Lebanon government

I invite you to argue it, despite the Lebanese army, in their own words, "happily" working with Hezbollah in fighting against Israeli invasion into Lebanon.

> Also I don't beleive Israel is going to annex Lebanon but they may create a buffer zone in the south of the country.

This is called invasion followed by annexation.

Israel has been bombing (and conducting raids in?) Lebanon for years. They attacked Hezbollah's ally, Iran. And Hezbollah has been attacking Israel for years. It's not true that the conflict began with Hezbollah's recent actions.

It is almost as if they baited a response and had already planned a ground invasion long ago.

They had a ceasefire which was broken by Hezbollah. Just like last time (2023). And the time before that (2006). And the time before that (2000).

There is this one weird trick for lasting piece with Israel: stop being hostile.

> Unifil, the United Nations peacekeeping force in Lebanon that operates south of the Litani, says Israel has committed more than 10,000 air and ground violations during the ceasefire. According to the Lebanese health ministry, more than 330 people have been killed in Israeli attacks, including civilians.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdd560nvqqdo

27 November 2024, IDF shoots at Lebanese citizens

https://www.firstpost.com/world/israel-hezbollah-ceasefire-i...

27–28 November 2024 Israel shoots and kills several Lebanese civilians in a different area, and injures more with a tank.

https://www.ft.com/content/a1b60922-edb4-4cde-a870-95010be89...

29 November 2024 IDF shoots at civilians at a funeral, uproots olive trees, demolishes homes in Lebanon, and shoots at journalists.

https://scheerpost.com/2024/11/30/israeli-army-pushes-deeper...

8 December 2024 An israeli airstrike kills three civilians.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/3-civilians-killed-in-i...

I have about a hundred or more such incidents. The only effective one weird trick with Israel is to not exist near it.

I'm genuinely curious: in the face of overwhelming evidence of Israel being a monstrous force of death and destruction in this world, and popular opinion continuing to notice this and thus turn against Israel, why do you maintain the old rhetorical defenses? Do you personally genuinely believe Israel is just defending itself? Most Israelis I talk to have long abandoned that as obviously false, so I doubt you're motivated by national fervor as they were - they usually would toe into Islamophobia instead: "if we didn't do it to them first, they'd do it to us." "Why didn't they develop their land in the hundreds of years before Israel arrived? Now Israel settled territory is farmed and flourishing." Those sort of arguments.

What do you think the endgame is here in terms of popular support? IDF soldiers gleefully post their war crimes on Instagram and we all watch it, it's not like the truth can be spun anymore.

When it comes to Israel the truth will always be spun. And if someone “in politics” dares (or slips), she/he will ultimately be made to retract the truth (see California Governor just yesterday/today)

No proof of course.

Read accounts of former UN peacekeepers who've served at UNIFIL, or actual thoughts of Lebanese themselves. Israel has been longing to acquire South Lebanon since ages, and the only thing that has prevented them from doing so were the Hezbollah. Israeli troops would block roads, fire and shoot at UNIFIL positions, as well as carry out espionage and sabotage. Every peacekeeper will attest to Israeli troops being far more problematic and dangerous than Hezbollah attacks and rockets. Lebanese themselves will echo the above opinion, and further add that Israeli looting is pretty much the same as Russian looting in Ukraine - everybody stopped buying stuff because they would know that IDF troops would seize it from them within days during the previous occupation. Shops would rather remain shut and lose business than keep themselves open under Israeli watch. Even moderate Israeli media has been extremely hostile to the very idea of UNIFIL.

The Hezbollah has always been a boogie man excuse for the Israelis to expand into Lebanon. Well, Hezbollah's gone now and we already know what's happening. Lebanon is losing close to a fifth of its land.

Lebanon is about UN Security Council Resolution 1701 and 20 years on it not being enforced. UNIFIL failed spectacularly, looks like Israel decided to enforce it themselves.

https://newlinesmag.com/spotlight/in-lebanon-there-are-no-mo...

"For the first time, a country enamored of compromises, half measures and trickery is watching these options vanish, replaced by a brutal choice: confront Hezbollah and risk destruction, or ensure it by doing nothing."

It would be great if Israel also implemented UN Security Council Resolution 497 (1981) and gave up Golan Heights to Syria, etc. But they won't do that.

> confront Hezbollah and risk destruction, or ensure it by doing nothing."

This is ridiculous. When your nation's citizens are being wiped out into non-existence and your land occupied, will you support the invaders or the guys who are fighting the invaders ? Hezbollah now all of Lebanon as a recruitment pipeline. They have utterly no shortage of volunteers now.

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