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Comment by greesil | Hacker News Reader

I was thinking of doing something like this for text with LoRa. But, having kids I don't have time to do that. This seems really great!

I read the previous discussion, oof:

S04dKHzrKT wrote

Make note of the privacy policy[1]. Some users may not like the data they collect. > Information Collected from Children: As detailed in Section 3.C, we collect voice audio during calls, call log information, and utilize the Parent-provided contact list in relation to the Child's use of the Tin Can Device. We may also collect device identifiers and technical usage data related to the Service.

[1]: https://tincan.kids/policies/privacy-policy

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Also note that if you buy a Tin Can unit, there's a noncompete clause: You agree not to "build, benchmark, or develop a competing product or service." So don't buy this if you work for a telco, or a voice communications service of any kind.

This is laughably unenforceable, and all the more ridiculous for it.

If a company puts unenforceable terms in their TOS, how likely are they to comply with the law in every other matter? No way would I give my kid a device made by these people for that reason.

Fair point, and totally agreed.

I literally LOLed at the idea that purchasing a consumer product, at retail, could include stipulations on my future employment. And at the hubris of any manufacturer for imagining they could get away with such an absurd idea.

Oh no, how dare I checks stand up a VoIP ATA and plug a phone into it. I'll be waiting to hear from their legal team.

This text does not appear in the link. I do see:

>Call Logs: We collect information about calls made using Phones, including the phone numbers you call or receive calls from, the date/time of the calls, and the length of the calls. We also collect network quality metrics and other technical data related to call performance. Please note that we do not record calls.

The version of the privacy policy cited in the previous discussion cited that voice audio is collected for the purposes of forwarding it to the other phone.

In addition to collecting all the metadata they also collect the voices of children recorded in voicemails.

Their policy says that the information they collect is used to "Send you marketing communications (see the section below for information about how to opt out of these communications at any time)" and to "Monitor and analyze trends, usage, and activities in connection with our Phones and Services, including to generate de-identified, anonymized, or aggregated data" and to "Target advertisements to you on third-party platforms and websites (for more information and to opt out, see the Targeted Advertising and Analytics section below)"

Remember that "de-identified" and "anonymized" is a lie. De-identified data can be re-identified, and anonymized data can be de-anonymized. Often trivially. There are even situations where individuals can be identified from aggregated data.

It would be better if they specifically excluded advertising uses of call metadata, etc. I assume this is getting mixed in from their ecommerce efforts to sell the devices. But how do you expect them to play back the voicemail if they don’t have it? What would be the point of "please leave a message after the beep" if the audio is going to /dev/null?

If it's a landline it could store the voicemail on device, which is how phones used to work (or prior to that, you'd plug an answering machine into the phone, but it was still "with the phone"). A GB of flash would be basically unlimited and cost a couple cents. You could play an old school "your call could not be completed as dialed" message if it's actually unavailable due to a power/network outage or something.

Have you seen some of the Meshtastic hardware with built-in keyboards? https://meshtastic.org/docs/hardware/devices/lilygo/tdeck/

I was thinking something like an esp32 + mesthastic / LoRa + REST API on the LAN, discoverable via multi cast. The "landline" is a tablet or phone with an app that talks to the esp32. Separately, a parent with the app does the Diffie-Hellman key exchange over SMS, NFC, or some other channel with the friends who also have the app, and you know their identity. The phone app updates the device with the friend's keys, they do the same thing on their end, and voila you're in business. The kids can talk securely, you can read that the kids say via the LAN, no goddamned third parties.

You just reinvented the IM-ME, a device famous for being used aftermarket to hack garage doors (in the days before Flipper Zero).

Lol. That's cool, I've never heard of that!

That privacy policy doesn't sound out of the norm for any telco, which will be subjected to laws that require https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception

It'd be extremely out of the norm for telco companies. Tin Can uses the calls and voicemails to collect data on children and sell that to others. That has zero to do with lawful interception. The moment Tin Can becomes popular enough you can bet that the government will be snooping those calls too

It would be pretty spooky if your voice managed to come out the other party's telephone without ever having been collected into and processed by the telephone network. Taking audio from one place and transporting it to another is what we pay it for.

My six year old is a big Meshtastic fan.

I don’t know when that previous comment is from but the text it quotes is not in the linked privacy policy

It must have changed in the last 8 months

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