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Comment by kruffalon | Hacker News Reader

It would be nice if this meant anything.

My old cynic, grumpy mind can't see this as anything but virtue signaling. I would be overjoyed to be wrong.

One corner stone of the EU is the 4 freedoms[0] that among other things denies public institutions the ability to look at anything besides the monetary cost when deciding who to contract for anything.

And as JIT[1] no longer only applies to goods but also to people noone has people working for them anymore, but contract everything out.

Obviously I haven't read the report/document so maybe there are some political steps that the signees are binding themselves to take towards a non-growth-at-all-cost system but I really doubt it.

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[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing

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You know? These days I actually prefer virtue signalling to the trend of not having any virtues at all and being proud of it.

I do think there are absolutely instances of people virtue signaling.

But, after observing society over the last few years, I've come to think that people who _whine_ about virtue signaling are so full of vice that they cannot possibly believe someone _else_ isn't also as base as they are.

Its all such a shame. It seems like society has no ability to have reasonable, sensible conversation. I really wonder how the enlightenment even _happened_.

Do you know that about everyone who is virtue signalling, or are you just assuming that to be a blanket truth about everyone? I don’t think you can ever know the extent to which someone is actually trying, even if imperfect because some things just aren’t within individual control.

I mean I don’t know anything absolutely about someone else’s internal mental state. But I’ve just observed enough to come to certain conclusions, though not necessarily about any particular person.

At least accepting that one lacks virtue is intellectually honest and saves resources otherwise wasted on deceitful proclamations of nonexistent and imaginary virtues. It's not like anything was meant to be done either way.

Pretending to be good at least may influence/shame other people in to actually being good. When everyone is just rolling around in the muck there is no incentive to be better.

> When everyone is just rolling around in the muck there is no incentive to be better.

There have been many celebrated and uncelebrated people throughout history, known for their tremendous insight and wisdom, who all say the same thing about virtue: It's better, by far, to be a good person with fuck-all than a pos with billions.

* "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" - JC

* "The one who lives a hundred years immoral and uncontrolled is not worth as much as one who lives a single day virtuous and meditative." - Buddha

* "It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor" - Seneca

* "Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself." - Marcus Aurelius

Etc. And that timeless fact doesn't change no matter where or when or who you are; or how many people are "rolling around in the muck".

It's not even an especially hidden fact. It's awful sad that grown-ass adults can look at people like Musk or Gates or Trump or the Manosphere shitlings and think, wow, those look like happy content people.

Very good point!

I agree, you're absolutely right.

I'm just kind of old, tired, grumpy and sad about the state of the world and my low capacity to influence the general direction or even small local things.

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