Hacker News Reader

Comment by nextos | Hacker News Reader

In the US, cheap ThinkPads like E14 sometimes sell for a bit less when you factor in all typical discounts. They are good machines that run Linux well and can be repaired.

In EU, and I imagine other markets, there's nothing remotely close. I hope this puts some pressure on Lenovo and the rest of manufacturers to be more competitive.

View on HN

In the EU it costs $200 more so it's more like a low to mid range laptop.

I have a feeling these are aimed at the same sector as the Framework 12, school provided laptops for kids meant to be bought in bulk by institutions. But there they're competing against $150 Chromebooks and neither is even close.

In the EU, you don't need to buy an extended warranty, since existing consumer protection laws require the sort of extended repair coverage Americans have to pay extra for.

Taxes are also included in the EU price, but not the US price.

But sales taxes are significantly lower and easily lowered or even avoided by driving a half hour.

No one does this, because they're low enough to begin with.

Yes but be aware this only goes where Apple is the actual seller. If you buy it in another shop you only have Apple warranty for one year and the shop has to sort out the second one. So buying from Apple directly is better.

The lack of reflection indicated by "US prices are so much cheaper! Why are our electronics so expensive?" vs "What do you mean, you can't take it back to the store where you got it for an on-the-spot replacement a year and a half after purchase if it breaks?" has amused me for quite some time. Not that both come from the same person, but don't they ever talk to each other?

I always wondered why nobody's ever tried to reach me about an extended warranty despite it being such a meme. I guess that's why, pretty fucked up ngl.

After factoring in sales tax, paying 25% extra for a moderately nice two year warranty sounds like it would be an awful deal for me.

> and can be repaired

The Macbook Neo is highly repairable too [1]. Not _quite_ as repairable as some Thinkpads with a 10/10 score, but still pretty respectable at a 6/10 with easily replaceable batteries and stuff.

[1] https://www.ifixit.com/News/116152/macbook-neo-is-the-most-r...

8 GB RAM and 6/10 "respectable" repairability.

RAM has no bearing on repairability? And yes, sure stuff is soldered to the motherboard, but everything is basically modular outside of it, you can replace every big part pretty easily, and no glue, even for the battery

The RAM being soldered is a hit against repair ability, you can't expand it or if the ram has issues you can't replace it, you will just be forced to throw out the entire machine. What else is modular here anyways? Can I swap out the CPU, the screen, the keyboard, ports...anything?

Repairability and upgradability aren't quite the same concept.

Soldering RAM isn't for compact size or cost or to keep you from upgrading, it's for speed. Soldered RAM can be physically closer with a faster bus than removable RAM.

With old style DIMMs I can understand this excuse, with LPCAMM though, it doesn't fly.

Yes it does. LPCAMM path is still dozens of millimeters. Soldered on is one mm or less.

Yep. Even the framework seems to be moving to soldered on ram.

If you mean the desktop, there must have been something wrong with that AMD chip. Existing designs with LPCAMM are just as fast.

Yeah, I got downvoted but the people arguing against have no idea of the speeds of the standards. LPCAMM2 offers the same exact speeds as LPDDR5x. It is dumb as a consumer to just accept soldering as an excuse from tech companies.

It's for power efficiency

Neo's RAM is Package on Package, it is literally soldered on top of the A18.

In fact, Neo's Mainboard is in the same ballpark as a Desktop RAM DIMM, which means replacing the whole Mainboard is in the same as replacing the RAM on a Desktop from an environmental perspective.

That Neo board is so tiny!

Why are the Thinkpads getting 10/10 when the math coprocessor can’t be replaced and the N2 cache is inside the CPU as well?

We culturally decide what parts can or cannot be replaced. Apple solders their RAM on the CPU for performance reasons. It’s coming to PCs at some point, if they ever decide to compete on performance ever again.

> Apple solders their RAM on the CPU for performance reasons. It’s coming to PCs at some point, if they ever decide to compete on performance ever again.

Are you assuming that the PCs do not compete with Macs for performance? People built Hackintoshes that are more powerful than the highest spec Mac Pro - and for cheaper, too

On laptops, which is something between 80-90% of the market for computers, you'd be hard pressed to find a laptop that's competitive with Apple. Can you find a laptop chip that's as good as the M5 Max? Or the M3 Max for that matter.

Laptop PCs are starting to lag behind Apple, just like the fastest Android phones have a hard time competing with three year old iPhones.

Of course on the desktop, you can just pump more power into a disappointing x86 chip to eke out better perf but that market is marginal and Apple basically ignores it. Laptops might not be a problem for you specifically but this situation, where a company has advantages but is inadequate for the needs of the market, is how so many chip manufacturers just disappeared in the 90s.

> Can you find a laptop chip that's as good as the M5 Max? Or the M3 Max for that matter.

Most people, including me, do not need the most powerful chip. Most of what 99% of laptop users do does not require the SOTA. The only task for a laptop that I have that requires more compute is gaming. My 3 year old laptop still performs much better in games compared to the M5 Max, according to benchmarks for the games that I play, not to mention the compatibility advantages

> Of course on the desktop, you can just pump more power into a disappointing x86 chip to eke out better perf but that market is marginal and Apple basically ignores it

Apple has desktop computers for sale, they do not ignore the market. The latest Mac Mini is actually a great value for the money, especially for businesses

I have a Neo and 16GB Thinkpad and the Neo smokes it.

What configuration on the ThinkPad?

Have you owned an M-series MacBook?

For those that feel like paying 700 to 800 euros for Neo, not all EU countries are living the life.

And then there is the rest of the globe.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com