Tennessee grandmother jailed after AI face recognition error links her to fraud | Hacker News Reader

Tennessee grandmother jailed after AI face recognition error links her to fraud

theguardian.com

105 pointsdanso28 comments

Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47356968

US legal system still as world leading as ever I see.

For all the wrong reasons.

Recommended compensation: $1500 per hour.

I have a face that looks like a lot of other people. I have a name that 500+ men use in the world. I don't do anything bad or criminal, but I could be mistaken for a man who matches my face. Nature creates patterns, and sometimes you get a Mr. Potato Head like me with a common face.

Absolutely everybody has face doubles.

Identikit got pretty close and there weren't that many bits in there and quite a few of them were hairstyles and that's a choice, not genetics. How many head shapes, noses, eyes, mouths and ears can there be?

A few million? Then everybody has a few thousand doubles. 100 Million? Still 80.

That's why AI should not be used for identification alone, it's unreliable.

Correct; NIST recommended (~10 years ago) they be used together: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1721355115

There was a case where someone's finger prints matched someone who was later found to have an alibi and not be there.

So even finger prints are unreliable.

Wow, had no idea. Was it a partial fingerprint match? I wonder if 2 people exist that match exactly all 5 fingerprints, seems close to impossible to me.

A couple of famous cases are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_McKie and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield .

The definition of "match" is complicated, and not just for issues like partial fingerprints and blurring. The FBI says they had a "100 percent match" in the Mayfield case. The judge says this assessment was "fabricated and concocted by the FBI and DOJ".

Or from https://www.science.org/content/article/forensic-experts-bia... published in 2022:

"When police retrieve a print from a crime scene, they consult an FBI computer database containing millions of fingerprints and receive several possible matches, in order of the most likely possibilities. Dror found that experts were likely to pick “matches” near the top of the list even after he had scrambled their order, perhaps because of the subconscious tendency to overly trust computer technology.

“People would say to me fingerprints don’t lie,” Dror says. “And I would say yes, but it’s also true that fingerprints don’t speak. It’s the human examiner who makes the judgment, and humans are fallible.”"

The problem with these things is that the police are on the one hand of course doing their best to nail the actual criminals but on the other that when they get it wrong lives are ruined and there are zero repercussions. If you have an otherwise functioning legal system without plea bargaining and other 'efficiencies' then you at least stand a chance to fight the system. But here that is not the case and the combination of those two is extremely dangerous.

The Shirley McKie case was in Scotland, which doesn't have US-style plea bargaining. McKie accepted £750,000 in full settlement. There was a public inquiry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprint_Inquiry .

> Absolutely everybody has face doubles.

I once had a waiter in a restaurant that I'd never been to before swear he'd seen me there many times, and when I denied it he was backed up by some of the other staff. Creepy, to say the least. Afterward I realized I should have given him my phone number and told him to call me next time "I" came in, so that I could meet my doppelganger.

I keep telling people about the movie the 13th floor. If you don't know it yet have a look, it is not something I assign any real world value to but it is one of the more interesting 'many worlds' stories.

Yes -- I know at least 3 Orion Blasters.

I wonder if any other men have your face and your name.

>(saved by her bank records)

Don't worry if unbanked, the commercial app industry is already here to save you.

“My Location Ledger” https://apps.apple.com/us/app/my-location-ledger/id675780680...

I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t aware that some of the various parties already spying on me do have a one in 1 million chance of coming in handy. To that end, tried this years ago but didn’t work immediately:

“OwnTracks” (FOSS) https://apps.apple.com/us/app/owntracks/id692424691

PS: Flock be ready for our location requests in emergencies, only fair

How was she saved by her bank records when they already arrested her like she was proven to have done it? How little evidence do cops need to go arrest a woman 1,200 miles away and fuck up her life? And then not even apologize for it? That's fucked up.

> “My Location Ledger” https://apps.apple.com/us/app/my-location-ledger/id675780680...

How can anyone trust such an application that declares in the App Store listing as “Data Not Collected”?

Insane that this took six months. AI facial recognition should be considered about as reliable as a polygraph, which is to say not usable in court at all.

Shame we’ve got ICE agents roaming the country also using facial recognition to find their targets, huh?

I know polygraphs are not admissible in court but they're still being used and have quite a bit of swaying. I think it's mainly intimidation at play here.

Yeah, it's absolutely crazy that it took 6 months to clarify this, if she was rich and had a good lawyer she could've solved it faster. I really hope that she at least gets compensated and/or sues the operators or the AI company.

And as far as ICE, I think they don't care that they pick up the wrong people, they just have quotas to reach to unlock bonuses. It's cynical and sad as hell. Hopefully we're gonna be done with them once Trump is gone.

Trump is not a problem. System that lets him do what he does is. I used to admire the US back when I lived in USSR. You can guess the way I look at it lately. I still have some hope in people of the US, they seem to actually be capable to stand for their rights every once in a while. We'll see what happens.

Well, me too but things change, the world changed and the US changed too. Let’s hope for the best

More insult+injury:

> But Lipps said Fargo police did not pay for her trip home, leaving her stranded. Local defense attorneys helped cover a hotel room and food on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, and a local non-profit, the F5 Project, was able to help her return to Tennessee, InForum reported.

How the hell are authorities not responsible for helping an innocent person back after forcing them to travel at the point of a gun?

I read she had no winter clothes, not even a jacket to go outside in the cold when they released her. She was arrested in TN during warm weather. Not all of the news sites reported the story in complete detail. Her treatment was truly appalling.

I'm finally glad for my large nose.

Don't think that's the take away

Fargo Police Department. That tracks. Are we sure the Cohens were not involved?

I would really love to see the Cohens make a reenactment documentary about American injustices, with the lead-in being "These are real events that happened, names have not been changed."

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