Hacker News Reader

Comment by htrp | Hacker News Reader

what do you mean here? are dock workers legally protected from automarion?

Yes, some directly via the LHWCA fed law and some indirect via labor union contracts with port associations that rent from the gov port authorities. Ultimately it's such a powerful union that often US presidents take part in the negotiations.

The recently negotiated (nation-wide) deal:

In the deal, the union holds on to existing contract language that protects against certain types of automation, and has won guaranteed jobs where partial automation is put in place.

Port employers will still be blocked from implementing “fully automated” port technology: the employers cannot implement equipment that is “devoid of human interaction.” And the union and the employers have to agree on implementing any new technology; if they cannot agree, the question gets sent to arbitration.

This language prevents East and Gulf Coast port employers from implementing the more extreme forms of automation seen in other parts of the world, including the Long Beach Container Terminal, in Southern California, where autonomous trucks and cranes entirely replace human operators.

These ports could buy the union's vote if it was important to them by giving existing workers some equity in the system that is intended to replace them.

What’s to stop an enterprising, well funded startup from opening a fully automated port?

The Jones Act

The ILWU controls labor at all west coast ports, including LALB, which is responsible for a majority of consumer imports from the Pacific. It has bargained effectively to block developing container handling automation systems.

“Bargained effectively”? Union boss Harold Daggett extorted the US public by threatening to “cripple the US economy’ if his demands were not met.

That is the leverage unions have. Do you expect them not to use it? The union isn't there to protect the economy, it's to protect its members.

Please provide me examples where the CEO of a major company threatened to cripple the US economy if his/her demands were not met.

As opposed to businesses which never use their leverage for the busnisses benefit over the nation as a whole?

I am trying to use more neutral language when I comment, so that the underlying assertion of facts are more likely to resonate with someone who may disagree with me.

I agree with your characterization, but I just wanted the parent comment to look up the ILWU, where they would probably see some of those facts for themselves and be more likely to understand my position.

As the human internet dies, I feel like it's more important for those of us that want some of it to survive to participate constructively.

Fair enough.

I don’t know the legal protections around automation, but the unions virulently fight efforts to automate the industry.

You should listen to Harold Deggett, the dockworkers union boss who threatened to cripple the US economy if automation was introduced:

https://ijr.com/union-boss-willing-to-cripple-america-made-m...

He also lives in a 70,000 sqft mansion:

https://nypost.com/2024/10/02/business/harold-daggetts-spraw...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com