Easy-to-use solar panels are coming, but utilities are trying to delay them | Hacker News Reader

Easy-to-use solar panels are coming, but utilities are trying to delay them

npr.org

47 pointsgeox19 comments

> So far, utilities have won over lawmakers in five states and convinced them to delay votes on plug-in solar bills

They'll change their mind once so many people use panels without permit that they cause difficulties with grid stability due to the unregistered solar panels making it less predictable. That was a reason they massively loosened the requirements where I live.

can you expand on that?

Originally it was required to collect a signature from every tenant living in the building in order to be permitted to install a plug-in solar panel. As a result people living in rented apartments just did it without asking, but that meant more energy generation that the supplier doesn't know about which supposedly made it more difficult to manage the grid. So they decided to instead flip it around so anyone opposing installation of a panel has to submit a written statement.

I see! So you're saying the opposite of what I thought. They're going to WANT regulation in the long term!

They're going to want to know about panels being installed, and regardless of whether the regulation says they can be installed, they will be, so the regulation will tend towards allowing installation but at least encouraging reporting it (while regulation that forbids installation will mainly just discourage reporting).

I love the small effects, but this is actually less efficient in the large. A power grid still has to exist, and that means transformers blow and trees knock down wires, and you are going to be billed for that. It's not that different from using a septic tank to get off the sewage grid; you might not appreciate when your neighbors all do it too.

Eh? what's the downside if lots of people install small solar installations like this? it drops the grid load by a small amount, and saves the owner a few dollars. Which seems useful to me in general as a nice to have.

The only real downside is that it decreases the amount of control that your power company has over your local grid, which doesn't sound like a downside until there is an electrical emergency and unregulated solar starts dumping into the grid and puts line workers at risk.

At the same time, it is a fairly small downside when 1 person does it, but the effects increase quite a bit when everyone does it.

This won't simply dump power into the grid (unless the used inverter would violate codes right and left), since those inverters need to sync to the grid first before allowing for any output. So if the grid is down - nothing will happen.

Yes, and that is good, but it's not what I mean.

Overproduction is a possible issue for the grid operator. It's not a huge risk, but if there is an issue where the grid is producing too much energy, and at the same time homeowner solar is also producing a lot, then it becomes a potential issue for the grid to have to figure out how much production to cut to minimize the risk of damaging the grid while also not browning out the grid.

It's a small risk, but one to consider when UL listing cheap solar for everyone.

You're talking about islanding protections to protect lineworkers? German regulations require them. AFAICT The NPR article points out that the UL Solutions certification will cover exactly this.

Not islanding, overproduction, where the grid owner is trying to accurately manage decreasing production to match need.

Solar is more difficult for this as when a grid is largely solar the local producers and grid producers will tend to have simultaneous excess and need in synchronous day/night cycles, so the grid operator would need as much accurate and real time data as can be had so that they would know how much and when to charge batteries or to otherwise dispose of unneeded waste electricity for their local area.

Just about anywhere where these are legal, they're required to stop generating electricity if the grid goes down.

I'm not talking about islanding, I'm talking about what happens when every home has solar and the grid is producing too much electricity for their need.

Grid excesses are still a possible issue in that scenario, but the power company will not want to turn off the grid as if they go down everyone's grid tied solar does, too.

These are nice, but there is a risk if multiple units are plugged into an extension strip with a cord that is not large enough for the current.

I found it very difficult to find ANY information on google about US plug-in solar a few months ago.

https://solarunitedneighbors.org/resources/what-to-know-abou...

https://www.brightsaver.org/

https://www.brightsaver.org/publicly-filed-states

No doubt the utilities are concerned about safety, the safety of their revenue stream.

"utilities trying to delay them"

what a bunch of clickbaity bullshit.

Also, from the article:

> And since the bills require UL Solutions certification, manufacturers will have to get their products through that process.

God forbid we have products that don't electrocute the people buying them.

Oh and don't forget to Google inverter vs rotational grid stability.

What a bunch of nonsense.

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