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> Isn't this what parenthesizes are meant for?

Parentheses add emphasis to a sentence or statement. Normally the use of it allows the sentence to be complete with or without it.

Em dashes may also add or increase emphasis but are normally treated as an aside. Think of it as a comment by the author to inject themselves, sometimes in ways which do not form a complete sentence.

For example: When you read this sentence (in your mind) it should feel complete and correct. Perhaps you read in your own voice — something I don’t normally do — or without one at all.

> I don't understand what the issue even is here, and the RFC also doesn't clearly outline it.

The issue is written there but may not make sense unless you know someone who stylistically writes with high-than-average em dash usage. I, for example, get inquiries and comments at work from employees who ask what LLM model I used for “generating these reports” because of the presence of em dashes. They do not believe me when I say not a single word was written by LLMs because, “there’s an em dash. Only LLMs use em dashes!” This is categorically untrue and erodes the authenticity of work from people because of the correlation.

Their aim is to implement a new Unicode character which programs like text editors could inject when a person types an em dash. It attributes to a human being behind the document, typing characters out individually. Actions like copy-pasting text in bulk wouldn’t replace em dashes since it can’t attribute a human as writing it out.

> Em dashes may also add or increase emphasis but are normally treated as an aside. Think of it as a comment by the author to inject themselves, sometimes in ways which do not form a complete sentence.

A semicolon is better for this purpose. Good writing doesn't have mad tangents anyway, there should be a flow and natural transition.

A semicolon is for separating list items that follow a colon

Semicolons have more than one use.

"In regular prose, a semicolon is most commonly used between two independent clauses not joined by a conjunction to signal a closer connection between them than a period would." Chicago Manual of Style, 18th Edition, 407.

An em dash would be better for that purpose — good writing should flow, like an em dash.

Semicolons start a new thought, they don't mark an aside that lets you return to the original line of thought. Like in their example:

> For example: When you read this sentence (in your mind) it should feel complete and correct. Perhaps you read in your own voice — something I don’t normally do — or without one at all.

I would have used parentheses in both places, and semicolons don't work in either one:

> For example: When you read this sentence (in your mind) it should feel complete and correct. Perhaps you read in your own voice (something I don’t normally do) or without one at all.

> Semicolons start a new thought, they don't mark an aside that lets you return to the original line of thought.

Sure they do. They're perfect for a related tangent without abounding the greater scope topic being discussed.

> I would have used parentheses in both places, and semicolons don't work in either one:

Parentheses work no question and I would argue are far more appropriate in that example since it's a minor elaboration/clarification and not a tangent, indeed, semicolons would not be appropriate for that.

> Good writing doesn't have mad tangents anyway, there should be a flow and natural transition.

In general, yes. Technical documents, research reports, news articles, and other formal publications should follow this.

Anything else which allows a bit more freedom in expression? I’d say it’s a matter of taste.

I had freewritten, generally free expression type documents in mind when I wrote my statement, e.g. blog articles or opinion pieces. The problem is 'a matter of taste' can be used to excuse/justify anything.

That's more of a feature than it is a problem.

Agree to disagree. It allows badly written stuff to be defended, I would argue more often than alternative more acceptable case scenarios.

Outside of settings requiring formalized style, people are free to write and to speak however they wish.

Others are free to dislike this.

> people are free to write and to speak however they wish.

Yes, that doesn't mean standards don't exist, nor that good and bad writing styles don't exist.

Don't be one of those 'everything is subjective' doofuses, please.

The very best part about English writing standards is that there are so many to pick from!

At the end of the day, it really is subjective: A reader either likes a style and/or finds that it is conducent to conveying meaning, or they do not.

(Speaking of unlikable styles, I'm just going to take the liberty to interpret the name-calling as your resignation on this matter. Have a nice day, comrade.)

> The very best part about English writing standards is that there are so many to pick from!

This monumentally misses the point.

> it really is subjective

And this is just the disappointing and flatly incorrect view I hoped not to see. Sigh. Have a great day/night buddy.

You and Kurt Vonnegut seem to disagree here. He made liberal use of em dashes and hated semicolons.

And he was a giant of literature.

The problem with your definition of "good writing" is that it's entirely subjective. Just like Vonnegut's.

> You and Kurt Vonnegut seem to disagree here. He made liberal use of em dashes and hated semicolons.

Got some samples you would care to share? I'm skeptical we disagree, honestly. One can have preferences for different writing styles, and write in a way that works with preferred punctuation rather than against it.

> The problem with your definition of "good writing" is that it's entirely subjective.

I disagree. Subjectivity is only true to a point. Someone might like Independence Day 2 more than Citizen Kane, but the latter is objectively a better film.

His word choice about semicolons is problematic for other reasons, so I won't quote it here, but Vonnegut made his views on punctuation and story structure very known. An internet search will provide it to you readily. And anybody who's read his works is familiar with his love of the em dash.

But more to his -- and my -- point: He also regularly encouraged people to flout rules and standards. His famous quote about semicolons, when read in its original context, is followed by a sentence with a semicolon!

He was a subversive author who abhorred mindless compliance and begged us to remain inquisitive. Subversion of accepted standards lies at the heart of all creativity. And as creative works enter the broader discourse, they themselves shape new standards. It's why our languages are always changing.

Your point about Citizen Kane and Independence Day 2 is nonsensical, and presumes we all have the same goals when consuming entertainment. I'm not going to engage in that argument.

> An internet search will provide it to you readily.

I'm not interested in doing the work to support your point for you.

> Your point about Citizen Kane and Independence Day 2 is nonsensical, and presumes we all have the same goals when consuming entertainment. I'm not going to engage in that argument.

It's not nonsensical at all, makes no presumptions and makes the point perfectly. You don't want to engage because you are unable to do so, which is absolutely fine.

Punctuation in written English can be used in many ways. It's a very flexible language.

It is perfectly OK (it really is) to use parentheses -- and emdashes alike -- where they're useful; other punctuation like the semicolon, the comma, and even the Oxford comma are also OK.

There's not much that is disallowed in English. Most people have no reason to adhere to any particularly-rote style guide.

> Isn't this what parenthesizes are meant for?

Parentheticals (including non-restrictive appositives) can be set off in English by either commas, em-dashes, or parentheses. There aren’t a lot of hard and fast rules for which is used where, though a common (partial) rule is for appositives without internal commas to be set off by commas and thise with internal commas to be set off with em-dashes. This obviously leaves open the handling of non-appositive parentheticals.

There are other uses of em-dashes, some of which softly overlap with other punctuation—I’m not aware of any common alternative to two em-dashes for ommission of partial words (useful in transcribing unclear sources, for instance.)

> I don't understand what the issue even is here, and the RFC also doesn't clearly outline it.

The RFC—fake, the maximum RFC number currently is 9945—is a joke.

Parenthesis are for "taking a small detour from the current thought", either to add context or personal thoughts.

I use em-dash (written as "--" because I don't have an emdash key on my keyboard) as punctuation that sits between a semicolon and a period.

It depends on the goal of your writing. You can usually set off the same thought with a comma or a semicolon depending on sentence structure.

You can also just avoid the whole rigamarole and have a separate explanatory sentence.

Times change, good writers adapt.