Fatbikes are wreaking havoc in Sydney's wealthy beach suburbs
bbc.com
bbc.com
Did you notice this article doesn't have a single mention of safe bike lanes? In Australia we spend ~0.2% of our transport budget on cycling and walking infrastructure - and see very low rates of cycling (and terrible safety outcomes) as a result. See stats on the Australian situation at https://australiancyclewaystats.jakecoppinger.com/
The BBC would have done well to read up on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_Council_of_Australi... before seeking quotes.
People riding bikes would always prefer a dedicated separated cycleway. Cyclists want to be on the footpath less than people walking want them there - they would only use it because it's safer than the road.
What usually happens here (and I assume is common in the US!) is the state transport department veto's taking away space from cars to build a proper bike lane, forcing people and bikes to fight over the scraps of street space left behind.
A particularly egregious example of exactly this scenario playing out: https://jakecoppinger.com/2024/09/another-broken-westconnex-...
If someone is arguing against shared paths - you should make sure they are arguing for bike lanes too. Otherwise they are not trying to be constructive.
Thank you for posting this and for taking the time to document it in detail.
I'm terrified for my own safety and theirs. I can't see this ending well.
Also no broken bones, or having caused others to crash. Annoyances maybe, but such is youth :-)
I'm of the opinion that this "disaster waiting to happen" thinking is a disaster by itself. I may concede that some of these kids are too reckless too often to be good for them, because e-bikes make it too easy to go that fast, without having developed the ability to handle these speeds safely first, or knowing where not to(sharp curves, rain, wet leafs, sand, fine gravel, etc(Did I mention I rode iced roads in winter?)).
But in principle the ride is getting more stable at higher speeds, because gyroscopically stabilized by the spinning wheels.
I see it as a darwinian filter of fitness. Sieving out stupid. Just like that.
If you don't give youth the chance to navigate that, there will be more and more unfit.
No amount of laws will change that.
The element of risk existing is not the argument being made here by ggm - it's the morphing and stretching of of the acturial mortality and morbidity curve.
The claim being made is that unregulateled electric bikes mixing in neophyte road users, suburban traffic, uncapped speeds, etc is increasing the per capita risk for an age band over what it was when "we" inhabited that demographic tribe back in our short pant days.
I am fine with youth experimenting with dangerous stuff. What I have a problem with is having my small bike-oriented city be filled with kids pretending to be gangsters racing around on electric bikes with complete disregard to others.
Tourists may see it different, but then they'd have to bring them with them. Seems impractical when most of them are already packed with skis, snowboards, and coming by regional plane from larger hubs. Which most them do.
Where I only visit nowadays, they seem also to be uncommon, except for the feeble things capped to 25kph. E-Scooters are way more annoying there. Be it by their drivers, or them simply being dropped in the midst of the way for whatever reason.
All I can say is that this disturbed me, so I made sure the speedometer wasn't lying to me. By doing many rounds on an empty running track, to check if the distance counting is right. Confirmed by measuring trip distances on maps, and comparing the stopped times for that. Further confirmed by comparing car-trip times by "progressive" drivers between locations, and mine. It all checks out. No matter if mostly flat, or hilly terrain.
(Nowadays even in alpine terrain, going from about 2500m altitude up to 4400m, and got cited for reckless driving, because doing 90kph downhill where only 15mph were allowed. Shrug)
Oh! And no doping, btw...
From https://osm.org/go/0GIDMKQGO--?m= to
https://osm.org/go/0GC~DS4_r?m= in 25 to 30 minutes, depending on weather, traffic, whatever.
Maybe gulping down a can of coke, orange juice, isotonic sports drink, in no more than five minutes. Going back, usually 1 to 2 minutes slower, because of wind coming from the south, which is funneled there from within the Rhine valley out into the open "Kölner Bucht"(Bay of Cologne?).
Did this at least a few dozen times in this times.
Going from https://osm.org/go/0GJGHYJiY?m= to
https://osm.org/go/0GC~DS4_r?m= again.
This time with a classmate on a much better bike, and member of a cycling sports club.
In nineteen minutes! Classmate almost collapsed on arrival. Though the first third to quarter of that track goes slightly downhill. Anyway, don't remember the time back, because I didn't want to give my classmate health problems, so we took it slowly.
Then, in another temporary 'home turf' for about a year, from here https://osm.org/go/0GI2sXyvp-?m= to
https://osm.org/go/0GJpBsflN?m= which is very hilly with many steep inclines, ups and downs, on all available routes.
Twentyone minutes! Up to 25 on my way back. Did this at least several dozen times in that time. "Progressive" car drivers take 25 to 30 minutes on that route. 'Normies' more like 35 to 40.
Also did countless other tours from my first OSM-link to Aachen, Koblenz, Hagen, Düsseldorf, and up into the Eifel, to the big radio-telescope in Effelsberg, then mostly downhill through curved roads back to the Rhine, and back home along it. Also tours through the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siebengebirge on the other side of the Rhine to Siegen, or just up the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drachenfels_(Siebengebirge) instead of taking the cog-wheel train ;->
All in rather good time, maybe not for the first time, but when I knew the road(s) better, having built up a mental picture of the 'ideal line', hazards, and such.
There’s basically no chance you got to that level without serious training, coaching, and a lot of experience.
That is a very different situation from just using a credit card and being able to zip down the road at 50-60 km/h. People have been killed by these fat bikes (as in, a pedestrian being struck), because fat bikes are significantly heavier than road bikes, and kids with no experience drive them in places where pedestrians do occur.
I doubt you were pulling 50+ km/h in the city centre, or on the beach promenade. Yet this is what we see with fat bikes.
The laws aren’t designed to protect the rider. They’re designed to protect the uninvolved bystanders who just want to enjoy a stroll.
The thing is, I lived where I had several routes of about 2km length with several steep inclines of 12% in them, right from my door. And not much else to do. So I did that, first on a road-bicycle with 26" rims for youths, which I grew out of very fast.
Got a bigger frame with 27 x1 1/4 then.
Now when that was new to me, I've been KO after riding up there, even needed to step of the bike, some times. But I persisted. Got myself some 'mountain gears' for the rear hub(ten speed only, so five mountain gears back there).
That helped. But I grew out of these, too! Because I didn't need them anymore! Installed the normal ones back, and thundered uphill as if it was nothing, being just warmed up enough to thunder over the mostly flat, and excellently paved ways going through the forest on the high plateau.
Giving it all, until absolute exhaustion, pulsating tunnelvision, nearly 'grey-out'. Again and again. By myself. No coaching whatsoever. Until I didn't have these grey-outs anymore. I later discovered this is called "Interval Training".
Topped that by installing cranks two centimeters longer than usual, and installing 'speed gearing' front and right, to get an even higher transmission ratio.
Where only 3 to 4 speeds were really usable for me. The rest I had no use for(most of the times). I started mostly in the eight gear, carefully, to not burn rubber, because tires were expensive for me. Didn't help much though, because even with that gearing the back wheel slipped when I pushed down hard from stand in tenth gear.
So wheelie it was, because why not? Whoo hoo hoo!
> I doubt you were pulling 50+ km/h in the city centre
Of course I've been, to show off! :) Sustained for my way to school for about 10km, without breaking a sweat, not arriving wet and stinky. Even in bad weather. Because that took me 15 minutes max, and public transport would have taken me 45 minutes to an hour. I tested. And refused.
(Imagine the surprised faces of some girls in my class, seeing me arriving in time, after I waved to them in the tram they rode, at the start of the trip(Heart Heart Heart beating sooo fast(Theirs). Ooooo wow!(Giggle))
At the time I made up to 300km per day, which I didn't even notice at first, because all I ever cared for was moving the 'needle' to the right as far as possible for as long as I could. A neighbor looking at my speedometer noticed that, and of course couldn't believe it :-)
Now that wasn't the rule, but it 'happened' again and again. 150km to 200km was more normal.
When I've been out of money for spare parts I ran 'almost-marathon' up there, just 39km instead of the usual 42.x. Sometimes two times, after a short pause, and a meal, back home. I didn't feel good until I had that sort of exercise. Shrug?
One could say my power was equivalent to a light motorcycle with up to 60cc. 50cc I always won against. 80cc I've been chanceless against, except if the rider switched and coupled clumsily, but not for long, they always won.
What else? I could jump over closed turnpikes, and the hoods of (police)cars. Still can do, btw.
> The laws aren’t designed to protect the rider. They’re designed to protect the uninvolved bystanders who just want to enjoy a stroll.
I actively avoided pedestrians, meaning going slow in the forest on weekends, or not going fast at all along the river. Only during bad weather when there only were few people, or none at all.
Racing the https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinpfeil_(Schiff)
Also not harassing them in the pedestrian zones downtown, just slowly curving around them, sitting upright, hands off the handlebar. Sometimes from still afar(when they were standing in clusters with no way around them), to not disturb them by ringing the bell, instead saying loudly ring, ring and making "parting the water" motions with my hands :-)
Maybe it's a cultural thing?
Had different relations with most car drivers, though. They always honking, me always flipping them the bird, because I've been just going within their flow, instead of the curb, without forcing them to slow down, so fuck off? (Yes, I knew about dead/blind angle already, and rode accordingly)
With all that said let me intone Darth Vader here: "I find your lack of faith disturbing!"
/now playing Born to be wild...
I may look athletic, but am no Hulk.
I don’t really care if a bunch of reckless kids want to gamble with their lives, but the place to do it is clearly on the street, not on the sidewalk. Those ebikes are pretty much dirt bikes, and nobody sane argues those should slalom between pedestrians, just like cars or motorcycles don’t drive on sidewalks. I don’t want to constantly be on the lookout for a 60 kmh vehicle careening right into me whenever I’m outside, which increasingly happens with food delivery "bikes" as well. There’s no place for them on crowded beaches either.
Wanna go as fast as cars? Cool, do it on the streets, it’s what they’re built for. Helmet (or even clothing) optional, I suppose, it really isn’t my problem.
Problem I have is that they often collide into others or cause others to have severe accidents, not unlike drunk drivers. And that's not cool at all.
We don't have a fat bike plague here, but we do have similar issues with E-scooters. Too many drive them with no regards for other peoples safety.
(Mumbling something about Talk to the hand Terminator-style here)
I'm just remembering six fast jerking motions, bringing me around that curve on the backwheel only. Instinct, guardian angel, who knows?
Rage was expensive. Backtire slick, internal wire netting visible all along. 30 Deutsche Marks gone :-(
OTOH I had unforgettable sex with that (sports)teacher(a very good and early triathlete) a few hours later :-)
Edit: I didn't even notice the burning rubber. I've just been shown my visible skidmarks on the tarmac, and they still stank.
I've been assured that they literally did burn in parts, with tiny blueish flame. But not for long, 2 minutes at most.
Looking at my backwheel...slick to the netting. Meh!
I'm not against them, to be sure. I don't know the solution, really. Maybe campaign for helmets, but how effective is that going to be?
Fat middle aged men could start riding them or instead of shouting at them as they ride by Karens could cruise past on theirs.
That ought to do it.
Sounds like kids are rediscovering fun and socialization in the outdoors.
Isn't this an unintended byproduct of what Australians wanted and legislated for?
They really could have added some bike lanes though.
-Harassing people -Not following Traffic rules
Consequently I think this is mostly fine. The big problems are the helmet issue and I also think they might need knee protection. 60 km/h is a bit high if they're made for 25 km/h, but most of this stuff is achievable with ordinary bicycles.
Australia already has mandatory helmet laws for cycling; the person quoted is pointing out that they’re breaking the law.
The issue is not so much the bikes or where they are riding, it is the brain dead groupthink mentality of a bunch of antisocial little rich boys who haven't been taught basic self preservation.. or what is feels like to be punched in the face on account of doing 50ks on a crowded footpath.
I suspect the kids do whatever they want group dont have any experience with the actual nuisance complaint but provide a knee jerk reaction. Id wager its not dissimilar to the delivery ebike nuisance in nyc - which is problematic.
Oh but I do. Or actually, in a city with many delivery ebikes but no "ebike problem" . Why? Because there's bike infrastructure. Meaning segregated lanes to ride a bike (and overall good urban design in general).
On a given street or road there's a place to drive a car, a place do ride a bike, a place for the bus/tram to go, and a place to walk. Is this really so difficult? Tell me if you please, in a city where there's only a place to drive and a place to walk, where exactly are bikes (delivery or not) supposed to go?
Cars kill several times more than even the most maniac ebike riders possibly can. They also emit pollution that kills swathes of people (an invisible, background death). It's just common sense.
And i agree with the other commentator, you obviously dont live in a dense city with e bike delivery.
You're right. A car driver would never rip through a crosswalk or kill someone.
That argument is stupid. Cars kill several times more people than ebikes ever will. It's nonsensical to be worried about a minor issue while treating a much more serious one as a fact of life.
> you obviously dont live in a dense city with e bike delivery.
Yeah but I do. The thing is I also live in a city with bike infrastructure, so bikes (delivery or not) can move safely without annoying anyone.
99% of the time they’re used safely. It’s pretty clutch to see a kid pull a thumb trigger to do a wheelie. Besides, if you mess your bike up by dropping it, there’s no hiding it from your parents.
Article is exaggerated for the clicks.
If you find yourself getting outraged, come touch grass by touching the sand at our beautiful beach. Life is actually pretty awesome, and kids having fun & letting off steam with e-bikes is a fantastic use of technology.
They might be coming in from the slums of Vaucluse.
In my own country you can frequently see 12 year old boys and girls on fatbikes. And they go fast. When a fatbike collides with a pedestrian the end result is not pretty.
You would have to ride a long way from Bondi to find a neighbourhood with less than a $5mil average house price.
It seems they are targeted as a proxy for the people who drive them, which are generally younger people.
Maybe every year we should ban the car brands with most accidents. Kinda the same idea?
Most modern news writing needs more flourish such as this.
Just build some fucking bike lanes, all you need is literally concrete blocks and green paint. Spend a fraction of what you spend on highway widenings on this and your problem is gone.