Iranian Women Graduate in Stem 3× the Rate of U.S. Women and Has 5× More PhDs | Hacker News Reader

Iranian Women Graduate in Stem 3× the Rate of U.S. Women and Has 5× More PhDs

hrnews1.substack.com

>Data showing Iranian women outperforming American women in STEM by a factor of nearly three doesn’t support that case, so it doesn’t get reported.

I thought the standard explanation for this was that in patriarchal societies women get "hard" degrees because that's their only way out of being oppressed as a housewife, and in more egalitarian societies women pursue what they like?

Not sure its a standard explanation, but i recall reading a couple of research articles about that topic.

I think it is kind of a paradox which is clearly visible in some progressive Scandinavian countries like Sweden or Denmark.

That was my thought as well, but all I know is hearsay.

It doesn't have to be one or the other, either. Whether women excel in science and medicine is not the sole indicator of their status in society.

But it is one objective indicator in the right direction.

No it isn't. IT IS A WAY OUT.

The west only accepts Iranian women with degrees (same for men, same for any other place for that matter, if they accept anyone at all, and for obvious reasons Russia is out, especially for men)

In other words, yes, the islamic revolution is making women smarter. Men too, but not to the same degree. But in the worst way possible. By putting a gun to their head and torturing them non-stop, then effectively letting the smartest 5% out.

Yes regime apologists want to call that "making women smarter" because "torturing women", what islam actually does, sounds ... unlikely to gather support for stopping the war and it's not like they care about these women.

Except what you are saying doesn’t really make sense and is implicitly sexist. You are assuming women in those countries don’t enjoy studying these subjects.

Also, to pursue a hard STEM degree or phd would detract from being a housewife, so no “oppressive” husband would allow that in the first place. Ergo the women pursuing these paths are not oppressed in the first place.

> You are assuming women in those countries don’t enjoy studying these subjects.

It does not assume that. Even with equal enjoyment of multiple subjects, there's a lot of other factors that affect what you study. And you can enjoy subjects that aren't your favorite.

> Also, to pursue a hard STEM degree or phd would detract from being a housewife, so no “oppressive” husband would allow that in the first place. Ergo the women pursuing these paths are not oppressed in the first place.

What percent of the women in these programs are already married? That counterargument only applies to women that currently have husbands, not women worried about future husbands.

It absolutely does assume that. There is an implicit assumption in their argument that women are doing something they don’t want to due to “oppression”.

The percent of women being married is irrelevant. Women can be oppressed even if they are not married due to societal expectations. If a single woman is expected not to pursue education and simply become a housewife, then it’s irrelevant whether she is married or not. She is oppressed. However, that is literally a contradiction because STEM education shows high representation of women in Iran.

Honestly there are a lot of people here asserting what they think are facts who don’t have the slightest idea how the world works outside their own city, let alone country. I would encourage some critical thinking when it comes to stuff like this.

I have an anecdata where it was true: Angela Merkel. She studied physics not because it was her favorite but because in the system that she lived (GDR) it made more sense than social studies or politics.

But she wasn’t oppressed. She made a choice freely and was able to decide what would allow her to pursue a career and get ahead and actually end up becoming the de facto leader of the EU.

The OP is suggesting women are becoming highly educated in technically difficult fields due to oppression. It makes literally no sense. Either they are oppressed and cannot get ahead, or maybe they are able to freely pursue education contradicting the original assertion.

Happy to explain this one as I have relatives from there. The only way to leave and get a visa abroad is to study elsewhere.

I witnessed this myself in the daughter of family friends whose eyes were dead and even though we met her, every second of her thoughts were dedicated to studying so she could GTFO as fast as humanly possible.

It's that, or stay in Iran. What would you choose?

This is not limited to Iran. Many Islamic countries have very high female participation in STEM because these degrees grant women greater freedoms. Iran (and most Muslim countries) is not Afghanistan; women do have a certain degree of freedom, and in some countries it's considerable.

Another point about STEM: families are more likely to accept, and even encourage, their women to go abroad and study. This is strictly STEM-specific: something like music or cinema wouldn't be accepted and would be social suicide. In my opinion, this is the very reason women push so hard in STEM in these countries.

It's still worth noting that the Iranian government isn't against its people or women pursuing higher education. They definitely encourage it (it's free!). They just want their people to align with their ideals and contribute to their goals.

The assumption/view that STEM nerds don't fuck is hilarious.

I'm not commenting on the validity of it or anything, it's just funny.

This is a pro-Communist, anti-Israel propaganda site which publishes articles such as, “Report: North Korea Is Now Beating America in Healthcare, Education, Housing, and Transportation” etc.

For the record, it’s often the case that women to into STEM in countries like Iran and Russia because they are denied opportunity elsewhere.

Learning that in Iran jurisprudence is limited for women, I agree on Iran. But will nitpick on Russia. What do you think is denied for women in Russia that is not denied in US/EU?

Russia decriminalized domestic violence in 2017.

An unreliable source of fast answers says that in February 2017, legislation was signed that downgraded first-time domestic violence offenses that do not cause serious bodily harm--defined as injuries requiring hospital treatment or causing a loss of ability to work--from a criminal offense to an administrative violation.

Not sure how that pushes women to STEM

have a link for that claim?

Well, to be honest most countries in the world beat America in healthcare and transportation, and to lesser degree in education and housing. US are a third world country with big army, that’s it.

> most countries in the world

Can you provide actual statistic to support this claim instead of just saying hip anti-America rhetoric to sound cool?

There are a lot of legitimate criticisms regarding the US infrastructure. I'd even agree with a "most WEIRD countries in the world beat America..." take. But to omit the numerous less privileged countries, or even the less privileged majority part of supposedly powerful countries in order to clown on the US does not sit right with me.

North Korea is absolutely not one of them and you would know if you read even a slight bit about the stories from the defectors, or corroborate their stories with stories from Chinese merchants shipping supplies to North Korea and their interactions with North Korean soldiers.

That title is neither pro-Communist nor anti-Israel. What are you on about?

I do Remember Iranian ranking high in the IQ

Country IQ rankings are not a real thing.

Once liberated this economy is going to roar

If you think the US has an interest in either Iran OR Iraq being dominant in the region without, at BEST, being completely subservient to the US, you may want to review how you think this will turn out.

s/US/Israel/g

What he said and what you say do not contradict each other.

Iran can be a puppet of the USA and have a great economy as well.