If anyone from Motorola is reading this: Please add a smaller device to your Portfolio, about max the size of a Pixel 8. I'm not hoping for an audio jack any more but at least small it could be.
All in all: Thank you for making this possible.
All in all: Thank you for making this possible.
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR9zBsKELVs * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZdbbN3FCzE Not about small form factor, rather enthusiast phones don't last
Currently running a Sony Xperia 5 V which farm factor is acceptable, and still will get a number of months of updates. And the winning point is that the bootloader can be unlocked and is supported by LineageOS.
All the flagships have huge screens, the big guys would have paid millions on market research, I can't understand why they arent just trying to achieve flagship parity (in terms of specs not price or software). No one is going to say it's unreasonable and they save themselves the market research
Don't banking, security and payment apps detect the unlocked bootloader and prevent them from working on lineageos? At least that's what happened to me after i flashed lineage on my old tablet.
Because then what's the point of a smartphone if it can't do banking, payment, shopping, ticketing, etc? Use it as a gimped pocket web browser and ebook reader? There's not gonna be any mass market adoption for such "smartphones" until they can run all apps out of the box like vanilla androids and IOS phones.
Your average consumer isn't gonna wanna fuck around with signing keys and bootloader relock. Hell, even this tech savvy HN user doesn't want to do that because he has better things to do with his time. The days from my childhood when I always rooted my Android phone, installed custom ROMs with custom kernels, magisk, titanium backup, cerberus to make the phone "my own" are long behind me.
funnily enough my banking app works but the mcdonalds app doesn't, lol
I can run banking apps like that, corporate apps like that, but I can't show a QR code to order happy meal.
In comparison the Burger King app works without problems and is very fast.
It was likely their management doing random shit to fix it. Instead of fixing real problem, which was bogus campaign rules. Reddit was full of people abusing their app discounts and ordering insane amount of food for free. It was well described.
None of that was due to app security holes. It was an issue in their promotional campaign. It was still working after those "secure" app limitations appeared.
The biggest issue is that there is a different way to do this for every device, so most custom ROMs don't bother. It's relatively simple and automatable for Pixel devices, so the GrapheneOS installer takes care of it. e/OS/, which is based on Lineage, allows this for some devices, iirc.
That said, my banking and credit card apps work fine on GrapheneOS.
That's the kicker, they will all eventually block it, so it's not worth your time and sanity constantly swapping banks on the hopes this one will keep lax security.
yeah, clearly nobody buys Samsung Galaxy S series for years, they are like the least popular Android phone model... /s
I'm running Pixel 6a (which was followed bu successors with worse screen:body ratio for years and only now the new Pixels finally matched and slightly improved the ratio, what a progress), but considering all the HW issues (baterries and displays) with Pixels I'd rather avoid it, the worst case will buy as next phone Xiaomi and hopefully somehow unlock it, if there is no suitable Motorola
edit: added HW issues explanation since I am rate limited on comments
I don't think the smaller Galaxy S models are what people generally mean when they talk about small phones, those are still much bigger than the iPhone Mini was.
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Samsung-Galaxy-S26,Ap...
here you have filtered Android phones since 2020 under 71mm with OIS camera
https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2020&nWidthMa...
it's basically just Samsung S series, Pixels, overpriced bad value Sony and few exotic/abandoned phones (Asus is done with phones, they had always horrible SW, Xiaomi only model 12 many years ago, Meizu not available outside China)
till I got the abomination that was a pixel 6a. fucking overheated - then finally battery exploded. Other pixels suffer the same problems as well - overheating n display being finnicky.
And still in every phone topic people complain about phones being too big... I'd love to have a smaller affordable smartphone.
For me, I want to be able to operate the phone with one hand, and the large screen makes it difficult to reach all the spots on the screen even with large hands. I do operate my Fairphone 5 with one hand, but it is super awkward and at some point, the phone will fall into a gully because I cannot hold it tight while navigating.
And I wouldn't mind 2mm more thickness if this means the cameras are flush with the back and the battery is larger.
Whenever I see this when talking about small phones, I'm reminded of the stats, where the iPhone minis were a small proportion of iPhone sales but still by themselves outsold most manufacturers.
The other option is the Samsung S2x line, which you can apply the same strategy to.
I think the issue of small phones is that, while there people saying they would buy if it was available, no one is saying "I would buy one small phone at flagship prices, even if they don't have flagship features".
The root cause is that the phone is not a primary device for me. It's what I use when bringing a PC is too much trouble.
1) 2015 saw the iPhone 6s, which was only 15 mm shorter than the Xperia 5 or 10 V, while being about the same width and thickness. It had a tiny screen in comparison. The 6s Plus was larger, and heavier, than the Xperia 10 V, in all dimensions (OK, not thickness, this was the time of "paperthin" phones) while still having a smaller screen.
2) I don't want a tiny 2008 smartphone, I want a phone I can use with one hand. A width of 70 mm or less lets me do that. Today, that is small, in 2015 it was about normal.
3) My perfect phone was the Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge from 2015, which has about the same dimensions like the Xperia 10 V but the rounded screen edges made it easier to use with one hand.
The Nokia 6.1 now feels like a monster in my hand at 75mm.
I agree that 70mm is sweet spot.
Are we really sure "nobody actually wants it"? I need to help my family select the smallest possible phone every time. Meanwhile choices are dwindling and the remaining 2 models are either overpriced or outdated and so I need to tell them it's better to take a (whatever currently goes for) "medium sized" model, which shifts upwards every time I/they need a new one. No wonder that people don't buy small phones anymore if they don't exist
I don't buy this nonsense about small phones being a niche when so many people are actively seeking them out, both online and offline in my practical experience
It's just harder to make, heat dissipation or battery will be restricted, doubly so if you're a niche manufacturer without a big budget, or one who tries to keep it repairable and needs the extra space for screws. So I can understand that Fairphone doesn't release a small model (even if it means I simply cannot use it: I actually put my money down and bought one, but sadly had to sell it onwards after a few weeks of trying) but for Graphenorola I'm not sure that restriction exists. It may just not please everyone if the chip is underclocked for heat and battery efficiency reasons and so they're not likely to. Doesn't mean there's no market for a small variant for any manufacturer that has more than one device on the market
My mom's and my current phone (same model) is what I'd call medium sized (per 2019 standards, when it was new) and the battery life sucks, but I'd buy this model again anyway if it came out with a ≥2025 SoC because I can actually use it unlike nearly any other phone on the market. Not properly reach the top, but at least the left side so that'll have to do
Do regular iphones sell well? If so, the small flagship phones are not dead, because iphones are not dead. If iphones are not counted as small phones, then the small android flagship phones are dead long time ago.
Why it has to be a flagship? Sell them cheap. It's like AAA game makers cry about ballooning costs, and they make 60 hour games that literally nobody plays through....
I'd like to have an Option around 6" and 150x70x9mm, which is not really small. Surprisingly the Pixel 8 has a smaller footprint than the Pixel *a variants while having a bigger display.
So my request would be a device around the size of the Pixel 8, having a similar battery size and if possible a headphone jack at a reasonable price point (350 bucks).
I consider the pixel 8 as really solid device for graphene OS.
They don't even need to fix the longpress for headphone remotes... Just a device that is the right size.
When my current phone dies, I'm basically returning to a dumb phone with a removable battery. Now that Xperia dropped open source, every phone out there is terrible and I just don't want any of them. Anything that would support a ROM has features to make my skin crawl.
It's water under the bridge. You're NEVER getting a Graphene phone that supports a microsd. It won't happen. The AUX jack, you will biligerently be told to get a USB DAC or otherwise you are an old man yelling at clouds.
Graphene and Motorola will work together by happy accident. Tell ya what though, if they make a GrapheneOS phone with 3.5mm, dual sim, microsd, and >no notch or hole punch< and I will buy it. I won't even care how much it costs. All the Xperias I've owned were among the most expensive phones on the market.
Most phone aux support microphones and acting as an antenna for FM radio reception. I don't see how either could be used for a security exploit however.
No electric circuit is unidirectional. Beyond the pause/play and volume commands that it supports (edit: and mic as mentioned in a sibling comment), Graphene would probably reason it's an easy way to externally read voltage levels and so an unnamed entity can mount side channel attacks with backdoored headphones
Why not a smartphone with the jack, microsd, and a hardware kill switch for camera?
As for the camera, a webcam sticker seems much more convenient than needing to mess with the hardware internals
Why such a restriction?
> or ones with a chipset that would have been considered fast in 2018
https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/
> webcam sticker seems much more convenient
Except there is also a microphone.
> than needing to mess with the hardware internals
What do you mean? My phone has a convenient, external hardware kill switch. No messing with internals is necessary.
Sorry, that wasn't clear: I meant any phone that I can purchase as of 2025. I was looking for several months and made a decision about 2 months ago. A second-hand Pixel was a big compromise but I don't see another option
> https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/
Do you also have thoughts to add or am I supposed to read and respond to 2000 words of material here?
The reason I'm looking at specs is not because I have no idea what I need. Not sure if there's another possible reading or if the link insinuates that. The software I use (e.g.: OsmAnd) is noticeably faster on more modern systems and was downright sluggish on my previous phone. I could buy my current chipset again, it's doable for now, but neither fluent nor future-proof. The chip's inefficiency also means it's completely empty after 2.5 hours of use (while I'm out mapping, taking notes, recording positions and sometimes pictures, listening to music... I ask a lot of the battery), whereas newer chips can do the same work with less energy
I also need a modern chipset for accurate GNSS. The phone I get from work has dual-frequency GNSS and makes razor sharp traces which are much more usable for my mapping hobby, especially in urban or forested areas or behind coated windows like trains or cars (car navigation isn't that niche, my current phone does a pretty poor job at that)
But yeah, let's not focus on specs. Who cares about any of this right? That's what I'd say if I sold a really basic phone
> Except there is also a microphone.
Respond to the person above. Hardware toggles wasn't my argument but theirs. Great that your librem has this but the thread is about GrapheneOS
Edit: lol that was yourself. You posted about a camera toggle, not me or anyone else
The idea is that relatively low specs do not necessarily mean low performance. It depends on the software a lot. For example, SXMo provides a smooth experience with maps and Youtube even on a Pinephone. The battery life may be a problem though.
> the thread is about GrapheneOS
The subthread you started is about a phone "with a headphone jack that I can actually use more conveniently than a tablet", so I thought I could intervene with some other options. I might be wrong though.
I also hope that the new GrapheneOS device from Motorola will be in the "smaller" size factor so it actually fits in my (apparently) tiny hands, but to be honest I'm probably getting one regardless, as iOS gets worse and worse every time I update it.
It's the smallest phone available with a real telephoto lens. I think it was only available in India, but I got one on eBay because it has those two features (not huge with telephoto) I was looking for. I moved to it from a Pixel 6a because I refuse to go any bigger in physical size.
> I'll be forced to go back to dumbphones in the future... along with many others, I guess.
Going back to a dumbphone for me would mean changing my outdoor hobbies (like contributing to openstreetmap), so I'll take my losses and continue on a smartphone, but I share the sentiment. Power to you if you do it!
Motorola has such great quality/price ratio and the user experience is decent. There's still some nagging and such but overall it's much better than the competition.
But I still can't get over my old iPhone 6. That phone size was just perfect. Easy to hold and do everything with one hand, easy to fit into any pocket.
I really want an Android like that. I don't need 3 cameras and bunch of other nonsense.