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Comment by hnthrowaway0315 | Hacker News Reader

> Scientists from China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, and Syria are considered “high risk.”

I think this makes sense from a national security perspective (although I doubt there is any scientist coming from these countries who are working on sensitive projects, maybe except China). Since there is too much trouble to figure out who is a spy, might as well ban all of them for the moment.

I do feel a strong nostalgia about the globalization era between the 90s and the 2010s, when I spent most of my life. But I understand it comes to an end, and I'm going to spend my second half of life in a much more splintered world.

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This list of high risk countries is not new (with the exception of maybe Venezuela being recently added, I’m not sure). Researchers with these citizenships have faced extra security review before joining NIST for years, and last year the lab increased the level of security review for everyone (not just this list)

I can understand a clearly communicated need for additional security requirements. But NIST operates almost totally in open science mode, with the main exceptions of being industry cooperative agreements. I don’t think this move to shed international researchers by reneging on commitments from the lab has been at all justified from a security standpoint.

So as to not mislead anyone who didn't read the article, the section following your quoted text is:

> Researchers from lower risk countries have been told they could lose access beginning in either September or December if at that point they have been at the lab more than 2 years or, under a waiver, 3 years.

In other words: they're also looking to bar foreign nationals outside of that quoted list, which to my mind is less understandable.

It makes sense to stop poaching talented scientists and instead let them continue working for your adversaries? I don't understand how this improves national security. The proposed rule is actually worse than this:

> The changes are part of proposed rules aimed at increasing security that would limit, to 3 years, the maximum length of time visiting international researchers can work at NIST.

If researchers know that they cannot stay in the US permanently and will be forced to return to their home country in a few years, it guarantees that they must maintain ties to that home country and dramatically increases their incentive to spy. What would you do if your government asked you to spy during a temporary stay abroad, and threatened you with arrest upon your return if you refuse?

It doesn’t make sense from a national security perspective actually.

A better plan would be to encourage skilled immigration and offer compelling benefits and stability like family visas, free movement, and so on. That way, the best people would make their contributions to science and society here. It’s actually a masterstroke because it deprives other countries of their best people.

The current administration is filled with weak men and therefore chose policies that look “strong” but are actually rooted in personal insecurity

There have been many cases of US born citizens selling secrets to foeign powers (same here in UK).

As a side note (tangentailly related) I wonder if the US would have gained nuclear capabilities if it wasn't for foreign scientists.

>makes sense from a national security perspective

Does it? AFAIK NIST doesn't work on national security relevant research.

Oh my god the national security! Someone make up the hypothetical situations the national security might be compromised without proof of any of it! Let me pull out my wallet and take out my national security detector…yep it’s lower than before! Quick pile on the propaganda!

It's an institute that's about setting international standards. It's not secret, by definition. You can just visit their web page and read their publications.

Just feels like side effects of poorly thought out rules from above.

Exactly how many North Korean scientists are working in the U.S. right now?

Not a lot, but what is your point exactly? There are a lot of really Chinese scientists working in the US, and the ones who are postdocs and research scientists at NIST are apparently being pushed out at the end of this month. They’ve already been vetted for security concerns, so that justification is kind of thin.

How many Taiwanese, German, Indian, French, South Korean, etc scientists are working in the US? The ones working at NIST are facing being pushed out at the end of September.

But aren't they happy you bring them democracy? I am confused..

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