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Comment by dilap | Hacker News Reader

> The problems aren't bugs; they're consequences of design decisions that may have made sense a decade ago, but don't align with how JavaScript developers write code today.

> I'm not here to disparage the work that came before — I'm here to start a conversation about what can potentially come next.

Terrible LLM-slop style. Is Mr Snell letting an LLM write the article for him or has he just appropriated the style?

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Heh, I was using emdashes and tricolons long before LLMs appropriated the style but I did let the agent handle some of the details on this. Honestly, it really is just easier sometimes... Especially for blogs posts like this when I've also got a book I'm writing, code to maintain etc. Use tools available to make life easier.

People are understandably a bit sensitized and sceptical after the last AI generated blog post (and code slop!) by Cloudflare blew up. Personally I'm fine with using AI to help write stuff as long as everything is proof-read and actually represents the authors thoughts. I would have opted to be a bit more careful and not use AI for a few blog posts after the last incident though if I was working at Cloudflare...

I found your article both interesting and readable.

It doesn't really matter what tools are used if the result is good

I'm not sure any emdash use at all is what people are calling out typically(maybe it is?), more the sheer number of them typical in LLM written stuff.

Just ctrl-f'ing through previous public posts, I think there were a total of 7 used across about that many posts. This one for example had 57. I'm not good enough in proper English to know what the normal number is supposed to be, just pointing that out.

I think you'd be much better served by writing something rough that maintains your own voice!

Just want to raise my hand and say I too have been using em dashes for considerably longer than LLM has been on every hacker's lips. It's obviously not great being accused of being an AI just because one has a particular style of writing...

What was it specifically about the style that stood out as incongruous, or that hindered comprehension? What was it that made you stumble and start paying close attention to the style rather than to the message? I am looking at the two examples, and I can't see anything wrong with them, especially in the context of the article. They both employ the same rhetorical technique of antithesis, a juxtaposition of contrasting ideas. Surely people wrote like this before? Surely no-one complained?

The problem is less with the style itself and more that it's strongly associated with low-effort content which is going to waste the readers time. It would be nice to be able to give everything the benefit of the doubt, but humans have finite time and LLMs have infinite capacity for producing trite or inaccurate drivel, so readers end up reflexively using LLM tells as a litmus test for (lack of) quality in order to cut through the noise.

You might say well, it's on the Cloudflare blog so it must have some merit, but after the Matrix incident...

> You might say well, it's on the Cloudflare blog so it must have some merit

I would instead say that it is written by James Snell, who is one of the central figures in the Node community; and therefore it must have some merit.

These AI signals will die out soon. The models are overusing actual human writing patterns, the humans are noticing and changing how they write, the models are updated, new patterns emerge, etc, etc. The best signal for the quality of writing will always be the source, even if they are "just" prompting the model. I think we can let one incident slide, but they are on notice.

I find it more amusing that the benchmarks claim 530 GB/s throughput on an M1 Pro which has a 200GB/s memory bandwidth. The 275 GB/s figure for chained transforms has the same problem.

I suspect the benchmarks, if not most of this project, was completely vibecoded. There are a number of code smells, including links to deleted files, such as https://github.com/jasnell/new-streams/blob/ddc8f8d8dda31b4b... an inexistent REFACTOR-TODO.md

The presence of COMPLETENESS-ANALYSIS.md (https://github.com/jasnell/new-streams/blob/main/COMPLETENES...) isn't reassuring either, as it suggests the "author" of this proposal doesn't sufficiently understand the completeness of his own "work."

The idea is well articulated and comes across clear. What’s the issue? Taking a magnifying glass to the whole article to find sentence structure you think is “LLM-slop” is an odd way to dismiss the article entirely.

I’ve read my fair share of LLM slop. This doesn’t qualify.

cloudflare does seem to love ai written everything

You’ve got it backwards: LLMs were trained on human writing and appropriated our style.

Partially true. They've been trained and then aligned towards a preferred style. They don't use em-dashes because they are over-represented in the training material (majority of people don't use them).

It seems likely that with the written word, as with most things, a minority of people produce the majority of content. Most people publish relatively few words compared to professional writers.

Possibly the LLM vendors could bias the models more toward nonprofessional content, but then the quality and utility of the output would suffer. Skip the scientific articles and books, focus on rando internet comments, and you’ll end up with a lot more crap than you already get.

They converge...

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