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Comment by edw519 | Hacker News Reader

So you've had months to prepare this and you're still not ready? You knew about this storm for the past week and didn't scramble to finish before it hit?

Hitting a deadline "no matter what" is a great metric for effective entrepreneurship. Your users, customers, prospects, business partners, investors, and regulators are unlikely to cut you a break. Why should YC?

(I don't mean to sound harsh on so many who are suffering now. I really wish them the best. I'm just saying that a good business person takes care of business (submits YC application) before the storm and focuses on the really important things like family and safety during and after.)

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I don't think I've ever really disagreed with any of your comments on HN before Ed, but this time I do. YC stands to win from having everybody that wanted to apply under the original deadline to do just that, and it shows that they care more about people than about their arbitrary time-tables.

Those that live in an area that is right now an absolute mess will be happy to see their power restored in the next few days and it will be tough for everybody in the region to pick up their lives.

"No matter what": What if your parents had to be moved out of their house and you had the choice between helping them or applying to YC?

And a ton of other examples that I could come up with but you get the idea.

There is a time to be rigid (when there are no other options) and there is a time to be flexible (when things were arbitrary to begin with and being rigid makes everybody lose).

Sure life isn't fair. But if it is possible to make it a bit better by being nice to each other then I see absolutely no reason why you should not do so.

A good business person is running a business, they're not applying to YC. The New York Stock exchange is currently closed for business, the area is an official disaster area. In light of that I think we can forgive a few start-up applicants that they don't have their ducks in a row just yet.

Extra points for those that did apply under the deadline.

It's tough balancing "fair" in this case. Is it fair that my family in the northeast is without power while I read HN? Probably not. I would support changing as many deadlines as possible to be compassionate and to remove any incentive for them to focus on non-essential stuff like YC (similar to what you're saying).

Is it fair for the person in southern California to get an extra couple days to revise because others are going through a hardship? Probably not. I would want them held to the original standard (similar to what the grandparent is saying).

That's the tension I see with this decision. And how do we handle the special cases with teams that are split between coasts?

I don't think one rule will be completely fair, and I would ask pg to apply wisdom regardless if the official date changes. The date is just a date. It's better described as a spam filter than a deadline since YC accepts late applications anyway.

Another thing is time considerations for the founders to review applications. Assuming they remain on schedule with the interviews and such, extending the deadline gives less time for them to review applications - which gives less time for each individual application to be reviewed. This affects those who applied before the original deadline.

This is all speculative of course (I don't know the effect the deadline has on the founders), but I agree that there is no right answer.

I agree with you, and more generally I find the "life isn't fair/no excuses" mindset to be a strange phenomenon. The idea that being prepared for adversity, planning ahead, etc. is a good thing is totally sensible. And sometimes you get some bad breaks, and you have to take your lumps and move on. But I can't help but feel that sometimes those that take the "no matter what" position are doing so less in response to the specific situation, and more because they have been conditioned/hardened against the many people that do look for shortcuts or are too quick to make excuses.

It seems like many in the no-excuses camp often frame the hard line as teaching a lesson for "the real world." But I would argue that a main reason deadlines are important in the real world is because other stakeholders need to have clear expectations to use for their own planning. It's unreasonable to expect them to adjust their plans do to one party's shifting schedule, and it's generally a bad idea to treat deadlines lightly.

But if there's a sensible reason and it doesn't cause a big problem for anyone, I don't see why the "principle" of a deadline should trump empathy and business judgement.

Especially since YC can always use the timing and circumstances of the application as additional pieces of information in their process.

This sounds reasonable but it's not how things work in practice. Some of the best startups we've funded applied at the last moment. David Rusenko of Weebly for example decided to apply so close to the deadline that he didn't even have time to tell his cofounders he was doing it.

I think is an unrealistic approach.

Most people cram for exams and leave it all to the last minute - that's life. So in juxtaposing such a common example - I will generalize and assume a lot of people do the same for just about anything else. It's not some crazy ideology - it's called being a human being. Factors outside someone's control shouldn't mean they should be punished for something that everyone does everyday or has done at some time. No one is perfect, people make mistakes and entrepreneurs more than anyone - that's the beauty of it. However, this isn't some exam - it's an application to find great people, great ideas and amazing companies.

The suggestion from your comment is that great people hit deadlines "no matter what". I couldn't disagree more. Running a startup is about elasticity - not "no matter what". If someone has spent weeks getting their video just right - after doing 1000x iterations of it because they wanted to reach the submission date by 30th "no matter what" but then some act of god comes along - it's fair that it destroys their chance ?

That makes no sense - they were going to hit the deadline according to your logic but now something has come along and destroyed that. The "no matter what" is now irrelevant - its time to be flexible, compassionate and understanding. Walk a mile in their shoes for just one second.

The world we live in is not some crystallized inflexible place and YC is not either - if your idea fails, start another. I, for one, hope that someone amazing comes along because they were allowed to submit after the fact. That's what entrepreneurship is all about - people.

"More than machinery we need humanity; More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost." - Charlie Chaplin (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEUA7owEl7c for some inspiration)

Totally. Entrepreneurship isn't fair, and there's never enough time.

But if it genuinely has hit the fan, and you're honest, then people will usually cut you a break.

EDIT: A day is kind of arbitrary anyway.

If you get an outstanding application a couple of days late, from a team who literally spent two days without power or phones, and instead of submitting their application they helped their neighbours clean putrid mud from their homes, would you reject it?

You're saying people should focus on family and safety during and after the storm? I should think family comes first, before the storm. When did Noah build the ark? Before the flood. A good business person can balance work and home life, and especially the safety of one's family. I'd rather delay an important project and take care of mine than rush a crappy job.

Noah didn't have much if a choice from what I remember of that particular fairy tale, he was under direct instructions from god that was about to destroy the earth (what a great guy!)

Not exactly a helpful comment to bring Noah into this... But there's always one that has to bring up Revelations or some other end of days nonsense wherever there's a storm.

While you're right, these are YC applications, not GE. The goal here is to maximize the return for YC and the odds are best that that will happen by letting these applications through.

These are future CEOs making the applications, not necessarily future COOs.

I realize what you are saying, I just dont think its is processing in my brain.

There are people who have died. There are possibly people who applied to YC already... who have been killed or ... No.

You may have the approach of you should of prepared.. and thats fine to have as your opinion, but I hope to god you aren't the person applying as your companies CEO.

I grew up in Memphis, Tennessee, memphis is a poor place for the most part but the people there will go out of their way to encumber you with hospitality. Now when New Orleans flooded, we didn't get the majority of people from Katrina, but we had a lot come our way, my high school classes swelled, and it was overall hard to see the faces every day of those who lost their homes, or friends, or family, but the point is, we went out of our way to do our duty as human.

This is the point where we all are given two options, we can realize that this natural disaster could have been (http://xkcd.com/1037/), perhaps an earthquake, lets say you and your friends were in an attic hiding away from a fire that was slowly moving its way up a stairs.

If you can honestly tell me that you would find falt in that sort of a situation with someone protecting their family instead of hitting a submit button, let me know.

Maybe, but YC applicants might have other things on their mind today. And I have seen no evidence that making hard deadlines is any kind if good indicator about entrepreneurial success.

It doesn't sound harsh, it sounds incorrect. People (customers, prospects, investors etc) are flexible and forgiving during times of adversity, it's one of the most basic human characteristics.

While I hope everyone is safe from the damages Sandy brought, I have to agree that deadlines are deadlines. My interview with Google 2 years ago, despite it taking place during a winter freeze when power and Internet was out, was not rescheduled; and neither was my bulk of college work then.

Completely agree, speaking from NYC my founder (in London) and I were able to finish our app and record a video all with plenty of time to spare before the power went out and the storm really got going.

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