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Comment by small_model | Hacker News Reader

Very recent issue with Waymo https://dmnews.co.uk/waymo-robotaxi-spotted-unable-to-cross-.... This is 17 years after they bet the farm on LIDAR, with no signs its ever going to be cost effective or that it's better than multiple cameras, with millisecond reaction 360 degrees, that never gets tired, drunk, distracted, and also has other cheaper sensors and NN trained on Billions or real world data.

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Tesla does not handle rain well either. This is not a LIDAR problem, it is a problem with self driving cars in general.

My Tesla can't even tell if it should turn the wipers on consistently or correctly. Let alone drive in the rain.

Seriously. Why do people think a company that can't do automatic wipers could possibly do automatic driving?

The same people that seriously thought we’d have a mars base by now.

A feature that is bulletproof in other cars with a very boring and industry standard sensor (it's not even expensive), while Tesla insisted they could do it with just normal cameras.

People also don't handle rain well.

That's an example of it failing safe. I'd rather it did that than drive me into a sinkhole because it thought it was a puddle.

Ok so Waymo is useless in the rain then, kind of limiting. But at least that 0.000000000001% times it actually is a sinkhole you won't damage the bumper.

I'd rather a Waymo be useless in the rain rather than a Tesla be actively dangerous and likely to kill me.

Tesla ""autopilot"" fatalities: 65

Waymo fatalities: 0

Autopilot isn’t full self driving (FSD), most cars these ship with smart cruise control (what autopilot basically is). Do you have fatality statistics for FSD?

If we are just talking about smart cruise control, most cars are using cameras and radar, not lidar yet. But Tesla is special since it doesn’t even use radar for its smart cruise control implementation, so that could make it less safe than other new cars with smart cruise control, but Autopilot was never competing with Waymo.

> Waymo fatalities: 0

By some measures Waymo is actually at -1 fatalities. There has been one confirmed birth of a child in a Waymo. https://apnews.com/article/baby-born-waymo-san-francisco-6bd...

I think the car would have to be more actively involved in the process for that to count. :)

There is also a report from the same flooding in LA of a Waymo driving into a flooded road and getting stuck.

They might have flipped a switch after that, causing this.

>A vehicle got stuck trying to figure out an obstacle so sensors with less information are better than sensors with more information.

Dude that's not a 'puddle' as the article claims, that's a body of water that it's not even visually obvious whether it's safe to drive through. Maybe I'm a bad driver but I'd hesitate to drive through that in a small car either.

I think the difference is the prior knwoldege a commuter has of that section of road. Does it always flood shallowly in heavy rain?

The amount of water will depend on the rain, so we don't know how shallow it is even with prior knowledge.

If you drive the road every day, you probably do. If you can see someone drive through it (perhaps someone who knows the area well and knows how deep it is based on puddle width), you definitely do.

Even without prior knowledge, seeing others safely navigate the same section will lower your estimated risk.

You're not even supposed to take Teslas in a car wash. Countless photos and videos online of flooding Tesla interiors when it's raining or in a car wash.

I don't think water is the platform you want to boast about for Teslas.

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