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Comment by karel-3d | Hacker News Reader

It will surprise you but we don't literally believe there is a face in the sky looking down.

It will surprise you but almost all religious people I talked to believe that.

There is no face. The depictions of God the Father are relatively new (in the history of the church; it's still Renaissance). Some people used to have problem with them (Jesus can be depicted, as he was a man, but can be Father?) but then it calmed down.

If people think it's literally a face in the sky, they are probably mentally challenged.

I think it is a bit rude of you to call most religious people mentally challenged.

It isn't because he already rejected your premise.

Yeah, but you literally and officially hate LGBTQ+ people, treat women as property, condone slavery, and literally hallucinate that crackers and wine are flesh and blood in spite of what your eyes, nose, taste buds, and all scientific instruments and measurements tell you.

Edit: yet you can't counter the objective fact that the Catholic Church is a hateful abusive power hungry cult full of dogmatically hallucinating lunatics, homophobes, and misogynists. Go eat your Jesus flesh and drink your Jesus blood, you cannibalistic vampire whack job.

You know as well as I do that the bible and church writings are chock full of evidence proving my point, so you can google it yourself.

And you also know that your church has such a long sordid history of raping children and protecting rapist priests than Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor's molestations and Trump's protection of pedophiles make them look like saints in comparison, and you can google that yourself too.

You don't deserve the favor of me giving you proof of something you already know to be true, because you're not arguing in good faith, you know very well you're wrong and I'm right and that all the evidence is on my side and easily found and documented, and I know very well you will reject all fact based evidence because of your bad faith.

Man, you are straight out of some meme generator back from Dawkins's heyday.

> treat women as property, condone slavery

Any examples in Church writings?

My brother, literally not one of your claims is true. I'm not sure where you have gotten the idea that such lies are the truth, but you really should reconsider your position. You seem to be very angry at the church (based on you posting this sort of thing all up and down the thread), but believing outright false ideas about the church isn't going to fix anything.

> literally hallucinate that crackers and wine are flesh and blood in spite of what your eyes, nose, taste buds, and all scientific instruments and measurements tell you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharistic_miracle#Scientific...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12491371/

You might not agree with it, but it is not as simple as it defying all sensory input and data.

I'm sorry, but you've got to be a delusional lunatic to attempt to defend that kind of brazen biblical gaslighting. I don't agree with it because it's absolutely objectively insane and mendacious and unjustifiable in any context, no matter how much insincere self-serving apologetics and white-washing you can dig up. And your leaping to its defense is just as evil.

And even if you fully buy into and defend that reality-denying fairy tale, you still have to justify the institutionalized cannibalism and vampirism. It's a sick, sick, crucification fetishizing death cult.

And on top of that, as you very well know and can't deny, the Catholic Church and you complicit enablers also defend and support and perpetuate thousands of years of worldwide institutionalized child rape and pedophilia.

No wonder Catholics are so supportive of and defensive about Trump and Epstein -- your church rapes orders of magnitude more children over more millennia than even Epstein could afford or thirst for, and they're still doing it and hiding it and refusing to pay the consequences thanks to people who still cheerfully carry their water like you.

If you don't support cannibalism, vampirism, rape, and pedophilia, you are free to leave the church, but for God's sake, stop hypocritically defending it and the horrible things it does even if you selfishly choose to remain in the cult! Didn't your bible teach you to have some shame?

> I'm sorry, but you've got to be a delusional lunatic to attempt to defend that kind of brazen biblical gaslighting. I don't agree with it because it's absolutely objectively insane and mendacious and unjustifiable in any context, no matter how much insincere self-serving apologetics and white-washing you can dig up. And your leaping to its defense is just as evil.

These are all priors that I don't necessarily agree with. Ad hominems aren't really convincing arguments.

> you still have to justify the institutionalized cannibalism and vampirism

Are you now just making shit up? Or do you have any evidence, that the Holy See thinks fairies and vampires are real?

> the Catholic Church and you complicit enablers also defend and support and perpetuate thousands of years of worldwide institutionalized child rape and pedophilia.

It is true that priests raped children at least in the last century, to me explainable, as priests are also only a cross-section from the general population. It is also true, that diocese administrations hide reports and didn't report them to the local law enforcement. That is indeed shameful. I am not aware that they defended and supported rape. That sounds like a made-up claim. Same for that it is somehow institutionalized. These priests were still prosecuted by the law of the Church. The information that surfaces now, also comes from evidence collected as part of legal proceedings in the Catholic Church. However sending someone to prison is none of the Churchs business. Most nations on earth would rightfully object to the Catholic Church issuing prison sentences to their citizens.

> No wonder Catholics are so supportive of and defensive about Trump and Epstein

Are they? Historically Catholics are less in favor of authoritarian movements, because they ground they identity in an outside person and international administration, and don't need to identify with the local administration as much as members of national churches may do. I don't know about the situation in the US, but the publications of the Holy See/pope don't sound like they are in favour of the Trump administration at all.

https://old.reddit.com/r/PhantomBorders/comments/19cx0ui/per...

http://econhist.userweb.mwn.de/konfess.htm

It is also unclear to me how your baseless claims affect doctrins of faith about the nature of eucharistia and eucharistic miracles.

I will surprise you but I agree with one of your points- the abuse crisis is horrible and it should be stopped. Its a deep and recurring stain on the church - and I hope the new generation of the clergy will finally chase it out.

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