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Comment by nradov | Hacker News Reader

Is it though? For developing countries, having a large supply of fossil fuels has always been a huge accelerator for industrialization and overall economic growth even if that fuel has to be imported. There really is no substitute, especially when you consider that it's not used only for transportation and power generation but also for manufacturing as an industrial heat source and chemical feed stock.

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China seems to think so. Their efforts to boost their non-carbon energy sources is going at an advanced clip, along with their advances in EVs.

Not saying they're above reproach, but their energy policy certainly trumps ours.

The cheapest mix of reliable power is 95% solar/battery and 5% natural gas. And that's in the US with its cheap gas and poor insolation. In the third world it'll be much higher than 95%.

Solar energy is cheaper than oil right now. On average. Too bad it's highly variable but if you can cope with extreme variability you can get extremely cheap energy.

Pretty tough to cope with variability if you want to build a modern industrial economy. I mean even with cheap labor it kind of kills your cost structure when capital intensive facilities have to shut down due to electricity shortage. Plus there are plenty of industrial processes that require fossil fuels as inputs separate from just electricity.

fossil fuels were a proxy for energy. China continues to show the world that energy independence can come via electricity that you generate within your borders, and that it can be cheaper than importing foreign oil.

China is in no way energy independent. Their fossil fuel imports are extremely high and not decreasing.

China's gasoline use is down substantially. Industrial use is up, but much of that is re exported via plastic etc.

Right, that's exactly the point. Regardless of the consequences, worldwide fossil fuel consumption will continue increasing. Those stable organic molecules with energy rich chemical bonds are so damn useful for everything that enables modern industrial civilization and there is no substitute.

No, plastic usage world wide is less than 10% of fossil fuel usage. Only in China can the plastic increase compensate for lowering demand because they are the factory of the world.

Buddy you're really missing the point. Fossil fuels are used as inputs into a huge number of manufactured products, not just plastic.

All of which combined are well under 10%.

Nuclear energy is our saviour it needs to be miniaturized and proliferated.

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