Comment by ndiddy | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ndiddy | Hacker News Reader

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The whole thing about people getting put on the sex offender registry for public urination is a myth and there's no verifiable cases of it happening. There are two cases that are relatively close. The first is James Birch, who pled guilty to indecent exposure for peeing on a Taco Bell because he was representing himself and didn't understand that meant he'd have to register as a sex offender. He realized his mistake and the court let him undo the plea and the charges were dropped. The second is Juan Matamoros, a meth dealer from Florida who claimed in the mid-2000s that the reason why he got put on the Massachusetts sex offender registry in the 80s was public urination. Due to the age of the case and Massachusetts privacy laws the court records aren't publicly available and his lawyer from the 80s responded to a request for interview about the case with "no judge I am aware of would allow someone to be put on the sex offender registry for peeing in public".

If anyone tells you that's why they're on the sex offender registry, it's extremely likely they're lying about it and you should really look them up.

It was standard practice by the police and DA in 2000s Massachusetts.

Neighbors were annoyed at loud college parties at the school I went to, so local police waited in bushes to catch people peeing in them, arrested them, and one of the charges was indecent exposure.

Happened to one person I knew personally so it must have happened to several others at just this school.

My friend plead out to some lower charge or probably got a continuance, but it massively increased the leverage they had over him and the fees and fines they could collect, and it massively lowered the chance of him doing any pushback that could have lead to a jury trial, which at least as far as he understood at the time would have put him on the registry, and which is why they abused the law and charged people this way.

Are you entitled to a jury trial for peeing in the bushes in the USA?

That isn’t the case here in Australia.

You can go to trial, but it will be a judge-only trial, and is typically conducted by the magistrate who saw you for your first appearance on the matter, in the magistrates court, which is the lowest court here.

I believe most of the colonies are approximately the same.

You are constitutionally entitled to a jury trial for any criminal charge in the US under the Sixth Amendment.

Thanks.

I’d imagine it would be cost prohibitive to take a peeing in the bushes charge to jury trial though?

Sounds like the sort of thing one would only do if they were aiming to set a precedent for some reason?

95% of cases are settled before reaching jury trial. Usually a plea bargain for criminal cases. Settlement for civil cases. Or dismissal. The other 5% are expensive.

Would peeing in a bush be a criminal charge? I'm not American but I thought there was a difference between misdemeanors and "actual" crimes.

Misdemeanors are actual crimes, yes.

Unfortunately in the US we do in fact go so far as to criminalize urinating in public. It's weird to me that speeding (up to some limit) in a school zone is ranked below pissing in a shrub along the road.

Generally speaking, there are two levels of crime in the US; misdemeanors and felonies. Both will land you with a criminal record, but a misdemeanor-only record will not show up on some standard background checks and does not remove your right to bear arms or vote, for example. Felonies are much more serious, and generally mandate a minimum prison sentence of 1 year unless plead down, while the sentencing for misdemeanors generally caps out at a year and typically just gets reduced to fines and community service, or a short stint (e.g. a couple weeks) in the local jail instead of a prison.

In some states, first offense non-violent felony convictions (e.g. exceeding the speed limit while fleeing police in a vehicle) can be expunged from your record when you turn 21 (if you were convicted and served out your sentence before turning 21). Otherwise felonies generally stay with you for life.

The other comments cover it.

We have civil offenses, the most common example would be minor traffic offense (speeding but not recklessly, etc). These were criminal at one time, but arresting people for minor speeding was deemed inappropriate.

Then we have misdemeanors - everything from reckless driving through basic assault (no injuries, no weapon). Usually/always <1 year in prison as the max punishment. Some financial crimes. Usually don't appear on basic background checks, but might on details checks (like when working for a bank or the government).

Then there are felonies - assault with a weapon, major financial crimes, etc. Typically >1 year prison sentences. As noted, these can impact your rights as a citizen and they will appear on most background checks.

As I mentioned in another comment, district attorneys frequently charge as many individual crimes as possible as a tactic to get cooperation/plea from the accused.

For example, you get pulled over for DUI/drink-driving. You're blotto, and you get out of your car and try to walk away. Police tackle you. The chargeable offenses would be at least... - whatever initial infraction caused the traffic stop (speeding, swerving, whatever) - that was probably civil. - The DUI - a misdemeanor unless it was excessive or a repeat offense - "Fleeing and eluding" or equivalent for walking away - misdemeanor, usually. - Assaulting a law enforcement officer (by forcing the police to tackle you) - automatic felony in many states.

The DA will often accept a guilty plea on everything up to the felony assault, or reduce the assault from "against a LEO" to normal assault (non-felony) to clear their plate.

No idea if this is common in the rest of the anglo-sphere, or anywhere else.

It's not the urinating part. It's the part where you expose the bit that does the urinating. And most places are bonkers about that.

The US judicial system LOVES to overcharge as a means to forcing a plea (and avoiding the cost/time of full trial).

There was also that Chicago Sunroof incident.

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