Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/03/lavabit-ladar-...
I get what you're saying, but please have some perspective. the two things are not even remotely similar.
Because that is exactly what we're talking about here. And if you don't have a like-for-like comparison, then we have nothing to discuss.
Stop both sides-ing everything the Trump administration does to give them more oxygen to operate.
These are uniquely awful times.
Friendo,the sooner you recognize it is both sides, the sooner you can step off the merry go round.
Fuck man. Here is a short list of how he explictly expanded police state that impacted actual American citizens ( and not random criminal aliens ICE picks up ):
- Targetted killing of US citizen without a trial via drone strike ( Anwar al-Awlaki ) - Signed 2012 NDAA with 'indefinite detention' provisions - Extended Patriot ACT in 2011 - Re-authorized FISA in 2012 - Defended post-Snowden NSA metadata collection - Seized reporter's property in leak investigation edit: - 'fast and furious' which effectively created a problem, which at best can be considered reckless if not planned and pretty evil if actually intended to work the way it did
Seriously man, unless you literally just started observing politics, you may want to reconsider your high horse stance.
This was in a literal war zone against a man who literally declared war on the United States.
> Signed 2012 NDAA with 'indefinite detention' provisions
Didn't answer my question. This law targeted terrorists, not mothers of two, driving home from dropping their kids off at school.
> Extended Patriot ACT in 2011 - Re-authorized FISA in 2012
Didn't answer my question.
> Defended post-Snowden NSA metadata collection
Didn't answer my question.
> Seized reporter's property in leak investigation
This appears to be an actual leak investigation done by the DOJ. I don't recall these journalists being arrested, denied a lawyer, etc. I can't find any evidence that this was a legitimate leak investigation done in accordance with the law.
> 'fast and furious'
Reminder, we are talking about domestic surveillance and illegal detainment for political purposes.
Donald Trump has over 6,000 habeas corpus violations working their way through the court system in America right now. Obama had < 10 in 8 years. He is detaining U.S. citizens without cause, without explanation, and subjecting them to torturous conditions.
Your attempt to say both sides are the same is clearly an attempt to sound intelligent like you're above the discourse. You're not.
Allow me a quick rewrite of your breathless response in a more reasonable language.
<< This was in a literal war zone against a man who literally declared war on the United States.
Was he targeted? Was he targeted willfully? Was he target ted willfully, while administration knew he was an American citizen? When did they know it? Did they stop their plans once they did?
And that is before we get into: do you stop being a citizen when president says so? Seems pretty apt given how we are about to cover Good.
<< Didn't answer my question. This law targeted terrorists, not mothers of two, driving home from dropping their kids off at school.
You are apparently cool with president determining, who the terrorists are. If so, ICE shooting a mother of two ( who was clearly not watching those two kids m ind you ) is just an expansion of powers Obama gave himself. Thanks Obama!
<< Didn't answer my question (x2).
You can barely answer yours. (x2)
<< I can't find any evidence that this was a legitimate leak investigation done in accordance with the law.
I literally laughed. Try harder. Maybe consult an llm? Maybe all those arguments about AI effectively being here already because the floor is so low are not that far fetched.
<< Reminder, we are talking about domestic surveillance and illegal detainment for political purposes.
Sigh, we are talking about what we are talking about. It is cute that you think you can control this conversation though. In a way, it is almost like watching a toddler walking for the first time. Don't get me wrong, it is adorable, but it doesn't change much.
> Allow me a quick rewrite of your breathless response in a more reasonable language.
The fact that you won't just reply point by point and want to spin up a self-important narrative tells me everything I need to know about this interaction.
> Was he targeted? Was he targeted willfully? Was he target ted willfully, while administration knew he was an American citizen? When did they know it? Did they stop their plans once they did?
I was pointing out how Trump is targeting and killing US citizens in America for peacefully protesting and your "both both sides do it!" attempt was a U.S. citizen literally fighting against the U.S. in a warzone.
>If so, ICE shooting a mother of two ( who was clearly not watching those two kids m ind you ) is just an expansion of powers Obama gave himself. Thanks Obama!
ICE had a specific mandate under Obama (and every other President) to go after only criminals. Trump perverted this mandate to form a militarized police force to attack democratic cities, killing protesters with no accountability.
We get it. You are above all this. You are too smart to think that either party is better than the other.
We get it. You can stop now.
Huh? ICE is targeting illegal aliens. Protesters try to interfere ICE targeting illegal aliens.. you know their mandated duties and you are surprised at the results? For comparison, if I were to block FBI/DEA from conducting their operations by using a car, would that be acceptable from your perspective?
Naturally, the whole conversation is kinda silly, because if you know anything about this issue, then you know part of the reason 'sanctuary cities' are called that way is because local police is expected not to coordinate with ICE, which is kinda how the shitshow that you saw in twin cities is not a real issue in jurisdictions that follow federal law..
<< ICE had a specific mandate under Obama (and every other President) to go after only criminals.
And they did. Now, it certainly was something of a surprise how many are willing to protect criminals ( I am sorry, 'protect the community'. If Good actually stayed home and tended to her kids maybe she would have been alive today. But she chose badly. She should have chosen taking care of HER kids. ICE didn't do great, but I can't really fault them here.
<< You are too smart to think that either party is better than the other.
I am smart enough to distance myself. If you have any survival skills left in you, you should consider doing the same. I can't tell if you really believe the tripe you wrote, but it does not really matter. I said it before. The mood has shifted in ways you may have not noticed.
Overstaying your visa is a civil offense. Kidnapping and assaulting people who haven't even committed a misdemeanor is illegal and unconstitutional.
> Protesters try to interfere ICE targeting illegal aliens
Well in that case you could declare all protests as "interfering with police operations" thereby making illegal all protests and ohhhhh ok I get it.
You're not a "both sides" guy. You actively support this admin attacking the constitution and you're trying to make it look better by creating false equivalences instead of just owning what you support.
I'd have at least a little respect for you if you just owned it.
We're done here.
Whether you realize it or not, we have barely even started. Honestly, I will be amused if you can resist the temptation.
<< I'd have at least a little respect for you if you just owned it.
Pass, I have seen what your respect is worth.
<< You're not a "both sides" guy.
In a sense, I am worse. I a guy in the middle, who is starting to see you as a bigger problem than the illegal alien. Illegal alien can be deported, but I am not sure what can be done with that kind of world model.
<< Well in that case you could declare all protests
Do you get to protest DEA operation of disrupting local dealers? No? Then stop being silly with that weak counter.
<< Overstaying your visa is a civil offense.
And here we are. The siren song of the left. It is has the benefit of being true, but completely meaningless in context.
I had a longer argument, but I won't waste it on you, because you are giving me bumper stickers.
If it helps, I will leave you with one little nugget though. I am not sure what you think exactly, and I sure hope you are just a dumb kid, who simply didn't have a chance to see what real world looks like. Still, even if you are just a kid, whether you realize it or not, your stance does have consequences in real world and your immediate environment. If you do opt to champion those illegal aliens, who only committed civil offense, then you take responsibility for them. All of them. And don't worry, people, who don't will be sure to remind you of your commitments.
gl out there
> And here we are. The siren song of the left.
There's something particular sad about people that won't even admit to what they are in public. You know your right wing brand is toxic but you don't want to just be another cult member, so you pretend to be something else so your words will have more (or some) weight.
It's not working.
Have fun being the reason why the rest of your family hates Thanksgiving for the 10th year in a row.
I don't want to beat the dead horse too much, but have you ever turned that inspection mechanism upon yourself? What did it see? Did it have to look away gasping at the impossible perfection of a celestial being? No? Odd.
You make me chuckle, which is the reason I am continuing in this fashion. Still, I am not even certain you understand what kind of conversation we are having now.
<< It's not working.
Oh, I don't know. Some seeds have clearly taken root.
<< Have fun being the reason why the rest of your family hates Thanksgiving for the 10th year in a row.
A lot of assumptions for such a short sentence. I will ignore it.
Desperately trying to change the subject is not an argumentation tactic. It's at best, stalling. At worst, trolling.
But that's besides the point. There is a real argument that the U.S. government, in trying to catch Snowden, was protecting national security. There is no such argument with Trump.
No, it was retribution. The info was already out there when they were going after him. Even if he stayed in the US and was captured, it still wouldn't have "stopped" anything.
This was of course not known at the time. The only thing that was known is that a single individual was responsible for the greatest breach of classified secrets in the nation's history, and that individual was still at large.
> was protecting national security
So yes, it was.
Nonsense.
This was of course not known at the time.
> This was of course not known at the time. The only thing that was known is that a single individual was responsible for the greatest breach of classified secrets in the nation's history, and that individual was still at large.
What he did, grab it all, then give it to reputable journalists, was the correct option to be able to inform the public of massive intelligence dragnets targeting civilians that the government was lying about.
How does stealings sensitive materials not related to domestic surveillance improve his odds of successfully leaking information and fleeing the country?
And please be specific.
Snowden sacrificed a comfortable life, his friends, and family to tell the American people they were being lied to. He exposed things that people SHOULD HAVE gone to prison for. Snowden is a hero, period.
Yes and all he had to gain was international celebrity.
Please understand the role that ego plays in actions such as this.
What DHS is doing are administrative warrants, with no judicial overview (unless you sue to stop them).
This ain’t the same
You sort of can when one is done illegally to begin with. While I don't like the Snowden overreach it was done through proper legal channels.
The discussion there should be focused on a judge giving too much leeway in their subpeona, not that this is the same was what's happening now.
He had a followup project, magma (https://github.com/lavabit/magma), that was supposed to be a secure email alternative. It's a shame it never took off.
It clearly does as your comment was very pointed towards Obama but fails to mention Trump once. I'm curious as to why that would be? Are you ignoring the massive amount of funding that ICE/DHS has received to invade cities of the President's opponents to crush dissent? Or maybe the threats of face scanning to be put on a "domestic terrorist" list? I don't recall Obama doing those things. A common pattern I'm seeing during this admin is: good things are attributed directly to Trump, but bad things are the government having too much power that his predecessors can be blamed for.
"Good tsar, bad boyars"
Remember, someone FAR WORSE can run for president, someone far worse can absolutely win. Don't make the assumption that your current least favorite administration will be as worse as it gets, because that is how you wind up giving that future administration the keys to the kingdom.
I was talking about Bush administration. I don't know a lot about that time period since I was just a teenager during that administration and didn't care about politics back then, but I vividly remember Obama because I've always been passionate about not having the government spying on citizens, and a free and open web. Everything wrong with social media we set ourselves up for.
They're all pro-spying.
No it doesn't. If you're saying Obama did <bad thing> then explaining how the things Trump is doing are related is helpful. In this case, I don't see how them going after Snowden for stealing classified info (to be clear I support what he did) is the same as DHS going after meanies on Reddit for speaking out against ICE. One is using the intelligence apparatus for a plausible national security threat and the other is using them to crush dissent. Very big difference.
All this goes back before Obama, but my point was that literally the president in charge is irrelevant, they should not have this type of power to bypass the other branches of government, neither should other branches.
Nobody remembers Bush doing anything specific the way we all here remember Lavabit. Lavabit and Snowden were very deeply discussed here on HN.
No, I think you're misreading. I said it would be helpful instead of distracting.
> Nobody remembers Bush doing anything specific the way we all here remember Lavabit
Yes, that's what I'm saying: you're extremely biased and it shows. In one stroke, you simultaneously say that unchecked intelligence apparatus is too powerful (true) and that Obama, specifically, did a bad thing that the goverment (hand wavey deflection) is merely taking advantage of now with no criticism of the current admin. It comes across like you're just a partisan hack who wants to dunk on Obama. There's no substance here. At least this time you mentioned Bush who started all of this, but still no mention of he who shall not be named.
> When I was 18 I emptied my bank account to fly my cousins to the US from Venezuela
What does that have to do with anything we're talking about now?
We should have given him another peace prize after that.
I'm afraid it's far too late.
Noted in the article, when this happened in 2017 twitter denied the governments request. Now Meta, etc are rolling over for the government.
I hope courts go further and find them in contempt, or engaging in something akin to barratry, or otherwise abusing the legal system.
Donald Trump's real legacy is not any single action, but a complete inversion of trust of the US government by its citizens.
And the world.
The issue is with the US is that ID is not free. I just had to pay 50 bucks to renew my driver's license. renewing a passport was 150 dollars the last time I checked (which was 2021). So any more costs just to function in society is a major impact to quite a few rights. The most hot topic being voter eligibility.
this is foreign to EU because, to my knowledge, getting an ID is free.
It is, after all, currently the best way to improve the bottom line.
Empires do not fall with dignity or grace I suppose.
Here's some of the issues it highlighted:
- forced labor in order to afford to eat. The $1/day "Voluntary Work Program" is the only way you're gonna get enough food to live. And if you refuse to work or try to protest, ICE doesn't have to give an excuse to send you into solitary confinement. CoreCivic sells this labor to companies
- extensive use of solitary confinement often for "minor disciplinary infractions or as a form of retaliation for participating in hunger strikes or for submitting complaints"
- dozens of documented deaths from forced labor and medical neglect
No doubt these issues have only gotten worse since the publication of this report.
https://www.aclunorcal.org/publications/resistance-retaliati...
What is not owned/subjugated to the current admin? reddit, bluesky, lemmy, mastodon. People use reddit quite a bit but nowhere near as much as the maga ones.
I don't even know which is worse: if these people control social media and influence society to their nefarious ends, or if they don't and america starts resisting and real conflicts arise from that. No good ends left.
https://newrepublic.com/post/206088/homeland-security-67-yea...
The letter written by Jon was about as benign and constructive as possible. There was not even the possibility of pretense in this case, but nonetheless his gmail got subpoenaed. The privacy community seems extraordinarily bad at dealing with nuance, so I want to lay this out specifically. This is a new threshold which has been crossed. No matter what angry commenters online will tell you, it was never previously so easy to to subpoena this sort of information.
If you have not already started cleaning up your online presence and thinking critically about your online OPSEC, the hour is getting very late.
I use a VPN router that sends all of my traffic to a public VPN; if you don’t want HN having your location and identity, stop giving it to them.
Unfortunate, but the inevitable consequence of granting the kinds of powers that DHS was given.
I have a feeling they would have gotten here even if Obama didn't expand the surveillance state.
The subpoenas are intended as part of the database the Trump administration is building identifying American citizens with anti-Trump views.
There can be only one reason for such a database: to punish and terrorize the citizenry of this county.
A memo from a Department of Homeland Security official reviewed by CNN and sent to agents dispatched to Minneapolis last month asked them to “capture all images, license plates, identifications and general information” on “agitators, protesters, etc. so we can capture it all in one consolidated form.” And the official reportedly provided such a form, called “intel collection.”
Moreover, ICE officers have traveled to the homes of protesters. Not to arrest them, because they have done nothing illegal. Rather, ICE was trying to intimidate them by letting them know ICE knows who they are and where they live. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/13/us/minneapolis-ice-agents...
Many of these (radio broadcast, independent websites) aren't accessible to non-technical people.
Many of these (cultural traditions, town criers) are obviously unserious.
Many of them necessitate going outside, which may present an imaginative hurdle.
Online services like email and social media even are utilities.
I don’t get that vibe honestly but I might be in my own bubble.
Folks, it is now time to delete anything you posted here that might be construed as remotely critical of ICE or Trump.
A court order will not help you if ICE have already shot you dead.
And yet, although the list of his connections is large, it’s very far from most of these people. It seems plenty of people saw him for who he was and steered clear.
Probably the best move I made for my mental health tbh.
You can still edit it to say "[deleted]" or something, though.
But in this specific case I do not agree with complying with this bullshit in advance.
If you start censoring yourself because of potential consequences, you’re complicit.
Sooner a dead lion than some kind of shabby boot-donkey.
Dang - I haven't read that kind of hacker attitude anywhere, even here, in a long time ya'll. I ain't kiddin', I got a little weepy.
I don't know what the rally cry of hackers would be, but Atari 800, assembly code, and solder smoke for all!
That's the thing about AI and scale. You don't have to only target the big fish. You can cast a wide net and scoop up data on people in every nook and cranny of the internet.
The concentration camps were loaded with people who thought their town was too small for the Nazis to bother with.
All it takes is one "wrong" thing to go viral and anybody goes in the retribution list.
It’s a totalitarian regime. With enough time, will come after all dissenters.
> popular hotbed of political activism
First, it is unbelievably illegal for the government to do this.
Second, pain is their objective. Republicans have had no principles since they elected Trump in 2016. Their only objective is to hurt whomever they consider the enemy.
And everyone that isn’t screaming “I love the orange dictator!” is an enemy.
This admin is constantly doing illegal things and when challenged in court has over a 70% loss rate.
It's too late. Multiple copies of all the posts exist already.
And don't kid yourself about deleting stuff preemptively. It's all backed up in the NSA's Bumblehive data center, Cedar Valley, Utah. All that has to happen is to tie some "handle" to a real person, and said real person will end up in a FEMA camp in an old KMart outside of a small town in the midwest.