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Comment by BinStorm | Hacker News Reader

I love the fervor with which this is written, but the threat is so weak I literally chuckled.

Imagine your an exec or manager on the team for keyboard development. You read this, get to the end to discover the user is gonna switch devices for... 2 whole calander years?

What's that amount to? Maybe 2 device upgrades on If your a die hard gotta have the newest latest model phone each year. Then what? you'll be back?

The threat doesnt even carry the weight losing a user for a 2 year blip, registers more as a dropped ping request then a drop in revenue.

If meant to be whimsical sure nailed it. To be fair I mean any boycot with a large scale mfg carries about the same weight. just thought it fell flat as much as anything.

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I think this is the wrong read on the “threat”. One user going out of their way to spent time writing this post is a canary in the coal mine. Most users never give feedback, they just churn. This is the same reason your toothpaste has a phone number on the back - that one random person who cares deeply calls the number and provides invaluable feedback on the product.

It’s not about the one person, it’s about that person representing tens/hundreds/thousands of customers. This feedback is a gift to a product manager that listens.

Yup and it's clearly getting attention.

Exactly! The fact that this has 300+ votes and is on HN's front page (and is just CONSTANTLY brought up on Reddit), should really tell you how fed up people are with the iOS keyboard experience.

I legit feel like Apple should actually make a public statement like "we hear you, we're working on it!" because it is actually bad PR at this point.

I feel like the people who could move the needle don’t actually type on their iPhones, they pay someone to do that.

Apple is allergic to admitting anything. They go straight from "there is no problem" to "this update brings improvements".

This new keyboard is revolutionary. It's not just an improvement in the way you will type. It's an entirely new way of expressing yourself.

This new keyboard is revolutionary. It's not just an improvement in the way you will type — it's an entirely new way of expressing yourself.

Works better with an em-dash to make it feel more like today's default ChatGPT style.

Do robots wear turtlenecks?

Dunno, but they surely are weighted a lot to sound like some people who do.

Perhaps it's just a natural case of convergent evolution when the fitness function is bullshit at scale.

Its presence on Hacker News and Reddit tells you that the folks who use Hacker News and Reddit are fed up with the keyboard. Most people don't care. Tech nerds do, and that's not nothing, but it's not necessarily a majority either. No one I know outside of tech brings up the keyboard to me, ever.

Once you lose tech nerds, the battle is lost. Other users always follow them.

By that logic, Linux should be the most popular desktop operating system. But even most tech nerds realize that their needs are different from regular users and recommend stuff to them they wouldn’t use.

Everyone cares, most people can't express it because they're not techies and don't know what's going on. But the keyboard is straight up buggy. Everyone is just working around it.

That's just how software works. People also care that the windows taskbar just kills itself sometimes. But they feel powerless, stupid even, so they just work around it every day forever and never say anything.

It's one of the downsides of having dedicated and fervent fans. They obfuscate problems regular users are having by drowning them out with praise for Apple.

During my last weeks on the iPhone, I reached out to various Apple discussion spaces on the web for help with some problems I was having.

I was met not with assistance, but ridicule. The majority of the people "helping" were saying some variation of "you're holding it wrong" or "I personally don't have that problem" (which is such a funny quirk of the Apple fandom - I didn't ask if you are having that problem, I'm asking for help achieving a specific outcome).

You can even see examples of this sort of behavior in that post about the window resize handles for the latest version of macOS. There were Apple fans saying some variation of it's not an actual problem, that they don't have that problem, that they don't use the window resize handles anyway, or that the post was an exaggeration. Turns out it was an actual problem that Apple addressed with a bug fix. Of course, Apple fans, being shameless, will jump to reframing the discussion from "Apple can do no wrong" to "See, Apple listens! You know who doesn't listen? Microsoft!!" I get it, not a monolith, but recognizing Apple fans aren't a monolith doesn't make them less off-putting.

The final nail in the coffin for me for the ecosystem was getting called a child for *checks notes* making the adult decision to move to Android to have a phone that did the things I needed (with much fewer annoying, uncritical fans and a lot more people who genuinely want to help).

So, yes, there is a danger in letting the fandom do all the work and laughing off "threats" of user exoduses. The conduct of Apple fans coupled with Apple's ignorance to regular users' feedback soured me to the ecosystem. It would take a lot to bring me back. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

> Most users never give feedback, they just churn.

Sure, but this is a duopoly and it's not as if the competition is perfect. A lot of issues like this simply don't matter because of that. The response that goes through the PM's head is likely to be along the lines of, "What you gonna do, switch to Android? Ha!"

> This is the same reason your toothpaste has a phone number on the back - that one random person who cares deeply calls the number and provides invaluable feedback on the product.

You'll notice that tech companies go out of their way to avoid offering that option.

as a counterpoint to that, i'm an iOS user, i use the apple keyboard every day, and it's fine? i don't really understand the complaint. it's clearly not "broken".

and i also never give feedback. there's probably hundreds of millions of iOS users out there who agree with me. so maybe don't change the behaviour just because this guy is mad?

> Most users never give feedback, they just churn

Uh...

We're talking about iPhone here. You can read complains about iPhone online all the time. When you have more than a billion of users, lack of feedback is the least problem you concern.

The article ended up making it to HN and, at least the discussion I'm seeing, is highly critical of Apple's recent design changes. There isn't a threat you can construct that'd throw 20% of Apple's profit into uncertainty, but losing their mantle of technical excellence is something that will deeply damage Apple in the long term. Microsoft seems hell bent on being a worse example right now but if the grade of Apple's products slips too much then the price markup they enjoy will be eroded which is a very dangerous cycle to fall into.

People complain about everything on HackerNews, if I was Apple I’d 100% ignore us.

The recent kerfluffle has been all the Liquid Glass stuff, I hear lots of people in my offline circle who aren’t reading every phone UI review who are trying various schemes to avoid or mitigate this update. It’s pretty bad! (The keyboard sucking is water under the bridge at this point, I think).

I get what you're saying; but the thing is you can kinda-sorta ignore the Liquid Glass stuff (performance not withstanding on older devices); but the keyboard is a "touch surface" people are actively using every single day.

Kind of a big deal that something you'll likely use every time you pick up your device has been broken now for going on years, with no real movement on the issue.

Wake me up when it shows up on Apple's balance sheet.

HN can be as critical as they want of Apple's design changes. Until they vote with their wallets (they won't, because most people here are ideologically tied to Apple) no one inside Apple cares.

I was "ideologically tied" to using products created by people who clearly cared more about creating them and my experience using them than their competitors. That era seems to have finally passed.

If this phone dies before they right the ship, I'll be looking around for the first time in almost 20 years.

There is a possibility that this "threat" could go viral. Now something dumb your company is doing is being discussed everywhere. Companies hate that kind of publicity. It's the kind of thing that sticks around and lingers even after things have been corrected.

It can't go viral until you actually make a post for people to find and promote. Step one has now been completed. Step two is gaining traction.

Your comment makes no sense to me. What in your opinion would be a strong threat? 'Tim Cook, open the suspicion package I sent you in the mail!'?

I mean, this random person added a countdown timer, and after that revealed that when it reaches the end, if Apple hasn’t met some arbitrary demand they’ll leave the platform but probably be back (just in time to spend more money on another device) and that the colour of a phone is enough to get them back.

This is one of the emptiest threats I’ve ever seen. This is about as effective as having a madman inside your house destroying your property with a baseball bat and saying “if you don’t stop smashing my stuff in the next 72 hours, I’ll consider writing mean things about you in my diary”.

No need to get specific. Write a blog post about how the keyboard is broken and say you’re leaving for another platform because of it. It’s not like Apple is going to check when you did it or for how long (or care). The theatrics are unnecessary and laughable, they undermine the whole message. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone inside Apple is sharing this with their colleagues and laughing.

Another random blog post about the broken iOS keyboard would not get any traction. This is getting traction.

I'm pretty sure the author realized that Tim Apple isn't shaking in his boots, looking at the numbers going down. That's not the point, the point is that it's funny and interesting and thus getting attention.

> Another random blog post about the broken iOS keyboard would not get any traction.

Nonsense. Complaints about Apple’s declining software quality get a lot of traction on HN. Here’s another example from today:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46997008

And lookie here, what was submitted within one hour of that post?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46996575

This exact same submission! Which didn’t get any traction then. The traction this is getting has little to do with the quality of the post, it’s popular because it’s another thread where we can air our grievances.

There are dozens of blog posts about this, and this one is trending on HN.

Anyway, why are you so upset about this? Why are you calling my comment "nonsense" and obsessing over this counter? It's clearly having an effect on you, which was its purpose. Realistically, another post about Apple's borked keyboard should create zero emotional response, yet here we are.

I think you’re projecting. How is mentioning a counter once in one comment “obsessing”? I’m glad this post is getting traction, I’m pretty open about my disdain for Apple’s declining software quality and Tim Cook’s management, I welcome posts that shine more light on it.

> Realistically, another post about Apple's borked keyboard should create zero emotional response

Of course that is not true. That is trivial to disprove.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46232528

The linked post is from two months ago.

There aren’t daily or even weekly submissions about the iOS keyboard being broken. That seems pretty obvious (and understandable).

There was a time, a few months ago, when everyone complained about the iOS keyboard, and blog posts about it got traction. If you want to get a blog post about the same topic to get traction now, you need a hook. The countdown is the hook. That's why I said, "Another random blog post about the broken iOS keyboard wouldn't get any traction."

That's the point of the countdown. When you write that "this is one of the emptiest threats I’ve ever seen", you are completely missing the point of the threat. Everybody knows it's empty. The writer knows it's empty. But it makes the blog post fun and interesting. That's the actual point.

Do you really think the writer thought that Apple would care about one lost iPhone sale?

Why so agressive? You're making a conclusion from a tenuous correlation. I upvoted TFA because I've been annoyed with my Apple keyboard and them not fixing it. Not becaue I saw some other post on window resizing. Judging by the other comments here a bunch of people are in the same boat. I've been complaining in my social circle about it and have partially switched to Android as a result.

> I upvoted TFA because I've been annoyed with my Apple keyboard and them not fixing it. Not becaue I saw some other post on window resizing.

That’s not what I said. Upvoting one post has nothing to do with upvoting the other. They’re two wholly separate posts, the one thing they have in common is (rightfully) criticising Apple for declining software quality. The point is that this submission isn’t special, as the person I replied to suggested. These types of posts are a dime a dozen (which I approve of, I think Apple should be getting criticised for what they do wrong) and they get traction on HN all the time.

I upvoted this submission too, it’s not wrong. But I agree with the comment up the chain that it makes its point as a pretty weak threat, and that doing so undermines the message.

Ok, it's clear that I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying.

"Why so aggressive?"

The post you're replying to is hardly being aggressive.

Is this getting traction? The front page of HN and some meta-debate is a pretty low bar for what I’d consider traction if I were a one of the richest companies on Earth.

That's the joke.

I also took it as a joke; I'm glad at least one person validated my sense of humour, I was getting a bit worried reading all the replies.

At this point, I assume 90% of complaints about the apple keyboard are either tongue in cheek, explicitly humorous, a detailed, qualitative study with new information, or written by someone who is very new to apple, the internet, and technology in general.

I don't see how else anybody could seriously think 'The apple keyboard is bad, and the world needs to know about it! I'll make my opinion known, and surely that will solve the issue', let alone following it with 'no more Mr Nice Guy: I'm going to threaten Apple, the company, with consequences that will force them to act. It's high time somebody held these mega-corps to account and I'm willing to put myself on the line!'

Like, even if the article was written by the United Nations or the EU, there are very few actual threats they could include that might realistically spur apple to finally sort out the keyboard.

'If Apple don't sort it out, I'm going to fine them 75% of their revenue,' might be logical but seems a little deluded: terrorism or personal violence would be... unadvisable... and 'I'll switch to android' is also comically unthreatening, while also being hugely overplayed and almost always played straight, empty, and uninspired.

Everyone knows the keyboard sucks. Everyone knows that's not going to stop people buying iOS devices. It's the equivalent of 'fast food isn't nutritious but companies pretend it is' - in the year of our lord 2026, a multi paragraph article to that effect can probably be assumed to be numerous, new, surprising, ironic, or insanely naive.

The fact that a realistic, honest assessment of one's probable future purchasing decisions reads as a joke is maybe a little dark, but hey. It's a dark world, and it won't be lightened by yet another 'I'm totally gonna boycott if they don't stop!'

Don’t we all deserve a little whimsy in our lives?

Exactly. So many people missing the whole point.

I actually logged in just to upvote it. Just hoping to boost the signal enough that Apple will actually do something.

I have a similar countdown of my own but is less specific. I’m on iPhone 15 (coming from android) and I know for certain that the next time I’m on the market for a new phone it won’t be an iPhone. I also don’t need a new phone, but the intrusive thoughts to buy a new one are always caused by the faulty keyboard

I somewhat agree with this. There are probably not that many users who purchase(d) Apple hardware but will leave due to the keyboard.

> The threat doesnt even carry the weight losing a user for a 2 year blip

Agreed, but it may be different if there would be more people feeling in a similar way.

> If meant to be whimsical sure nailed it.

It's a bit strange though because there are many things one can critisize Apple for. My main gripe is still Steve Jobs underpaying developers via illegal agreements. Yet people praise him as if he would have been a god. I am not saying he had bad ideas or was a bad designer per se, but some people never even mention criminal activities for their heroes. The court case was mega-clear; that is undeniable. If he would still be alive I'd love to hear what people would say now.

> My main gripe is still Steve Jobs underpaying developers via illegal agreements.

I'm blown away by Apple building their own stores in competition with the franchisees who carried them those lean years.

The threat is weak, the attraction it gets is great.

It was never about loosing one single customer, it's about getting a bad reputation and loosing many more undecided potential customers.

Yeah imagine all those customers, loose to wreak havoc. Would be a shame to lose them …

I don't think the threat is to leave for 2 years then come back. He just doesn't want to commit to leaving forever. Who knows if in a decade it'll be Android with the shitty keyboard (or Apple will have the better Direct Brain Interface, or whatever). Most likely though, if someone switches ecosystems for 2+ years, they're going to get used to the new one and stay there.

I can't believe there are also other people downrange who don't get it, but in case anyone has a broken sarcasm detector:

Yes, this blog post is meant to be whimsical and tongue-in-cheek because the post takes itself too seriously by pretending like one user leaving to another platform (for 2 years GASP!!) with a big scary countdown timer is a credible threat to a multi-trillion dollar company. The real part of the post is the request and complaining about the bug.

Yep, lol. Example 364023 of high prevalence of autism accompanied by an arrogant need to weigh in aggressively despite these people having to had realized by this point in their lives that if something completely doesn't make sense, it's worth sitting it out in the case that it is indeed sarcasm.

> Example 364023 of high prevalence of autism

Excuse me!

As an autistic/ADHD[1], I can assure you that we do get sarcasm, and it's not autism that hinders that ability. In fact, this very post is peak autistic humor. (Deadpan comedy is trademark autism[2]).

>accompanied by an arrogant need to weigh in aggressively

Ding-ding, that's the winner! A necessary and sufficient condition for comments of that sort to appear.

Not exclusive to people on the spectrum either, mind you.

[1] https://romankogan.net/adhd

[2] https://autisticamber.substack.com/p/deadpan-literal-and-loy...

I’m a long term AAPL shareholder and even I see a bit of the hegemonic vibes.

Little people can’t get the attention of large organizations without literally setting themselves on fire. Voting with your feet isn’t going to affect a trillion dollar company at all. Unless maybe you’re Dame Judy Dench.

Interesting idea: celebrity influencer for hire: pay a celebrity to champion your cause/make it go viral. Maybe do a "GoFundMe"-esque model (although, giving celebs even more money will probably not be popular... how about "$$$ for a charity of your choice if you talk about the stupid iPhone keyboard"?)

Unfortunately people of intermediate standing try all the time and get told to go back to their day job and stop dabbling in political action.

Also some of these people would have voted for Reagan so... you know. A person is smart, people are stupid.

Given that the esteemed Dame is almost completely blind and has never positioned herself as a tech influencer or aficionada, I feel that her (thoroughly deserved) prestige and social power might be a little wasted on the grand cause of 'the iOS keyboard could be better'.

I mean, I'd agree with her. But it's hardly Joanna Lumley championing the gurkhas, when she's been saying for years that she can no longer recognise even loved ones standing right in front of her. Apple could do a lot better, but I'm not sure they could improve the keyboard that much.

It's even worse: based on "orange iPhone" they just bought an iPhone 17. So they'll skip the next two iPhones and be back in 2028? Sounds like a standard upgrade cycle.

Yeah I’m boycotting Apple for like 8 years at a time by this standard, I guess. Their hardware lasts a while.

I do wish I could get a “security patches only” update channel, though. Their declining software competency is visible and annoying.

Counting the spark while the house is on fire.

You better believe is not just one user. Read the comments. We are thousands or millions. I‘m really tired of the shitty Keyboard. For a long time I thought it was my fault, now I know is not.

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