Hacker News Reader

Comment by yladiz | Hacker News Reader

Is it cheaper factoring in externalities?

Yes, because the primary externality is an unreliable power grid. That externality is being priced into the unreliable sources of production.

Any other externality is a rounding error against an unreliable electric grid.

While I agree that the unreliable grid dominates I don't see how that says it's been factored in. The cost is hidden, pushed off onto the existing powerplants which run less of the time and thus cost more per kwh actually produced. This "works" until you don't have enough gas when it's calm and things go badly.

Most places simply do not have a high enough percentage of renewables to hit this yet. Last I knew Hawaii had hit a different wall--while in theory a transformer works equally well in both directions real world engineering of high power transformers doesn't work that way. The substations can't push power up, thus solar connections were prohibited if they could cause the situation to occur. (You can't have panels if too many of your neighbors do.)

Two can play the externalities game.

Externalities such as destroying your manufacturing base and eroding living standards and middle-class wealth by having 4x higher electricity costs than a country like China which emits 2x more CO2 per capita?

Rest assured that the UK would have damaged manufacturing and living standards regardless of renewables. It is just too complicated and expensive to build things. That not only damages the things you mentioned but renewables, gas and nuclear deployment.

But yeah bet against the Chinese solar and battery industries. And bet in favour of cheap plentiful gas in northern Europe.

> Rest assured that the UK would have damaged manufacturing and living standards regardless of renewables. It is just too complicated and expensive to build things. That not only damages the things you mentioned but renewables, gas and nuclear deployment.

High energy prices unquestionably make most primary and manufacturing production less competitive, and they reduce living standards. What are you even trying to say?

> But yeah bet against the Chinese solar and battery industries. And bet in favour of cheap plentiful gas in northern Europe.

This does not address what I wrote.

I was trying to say that high energy costs are just one issue. And even then renewables are not the root cause of high energy costs.

> I was trying to say that high energy costs are just one issue.

The one issue we were discussing.

> And even then renewables are not the root cause of high energy costs.

There is rarely one single root cause of anything. Renewables have certainly caused higher costs and worse service in some cases. I don't know the specifics of the UK, but you could argue the point with the above poster who said gas was cheaper.

I do know the specifics of the UK and that is what was being discussed here. But yeah dismissing anything that doesn't align with an easily argued point seems foolish to me.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com