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Comment by SoftTalker | Hacker News Reader

That's the thing, it legitimately does solve some crimes. And both Flock and the police who use it will quickly trot out some high profile examples. It is one of those classic "if it saves one child it's worth any price" arguments.

Are you OK with being tracked everywhere you go in public so that some bad guys don't get away with their bad activities? Many people are.

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Flock cameras are probably the cause of more crime than they solve with all the abuse by employees, federal agencies, and the general insecurity.

It's the wage theft versus retail theft problem, no matter which one has higher 'real' costs, society has decided that one is the 'real' problem that we should prioritize.

Doubt it. Any sources for that?

I am in favor of the flock cameras. Most people tend to behave if they know they are being watched. They have helped reduce crime in the cities they've been deployed in.

That's the good thing about police states, no crime! (except state-sanctioned crimes against humanity of course)

Please cite your source for that. Cities are pulling out of contracts with flock because they lied about who has access to data and there’s been improper access.

You're not really refuting his point.

Cities aren't pulling out of Flock contacts because Flock isn't effective at clearing crimes. They're pulling out because Flock has garbage security, lies about who has/had access to the data, and generally argues in bad faith about all of it.

These are separate concerns.

I think ALPRs with proper access controls, short retention periods, and strict auditing/oversight are a net good. Flock... Not so much.

>“Communities rejecting Flock aren’t choosing to be less safe; quite the opposite,” Hamid said. “They are coming to terms with how such a massive, sprawling, and ultimately ungovernable surveillance system puts themselves and their community members at risk.”

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/11/flock-haters-cro...

https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/wyden_letter_to_f...

https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-krish...

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/06/flock-safetys-feature-...

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/11/human-toll-alpr-errors

https://www.404media.co/a-texas-cop-searched-license-plate-c...

https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-...

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/10/flocks-gunshot-detecti...

https://denverite.com/2025/10/27/bow-mar-flock-cameras-accus...

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2025...

https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/doritos-or-gun - not flock but a dangerous example of AI surveillance camera false positives risking people's lives.

And even with that minimal effort I've already provided about the same quality of sources that Flock corporate does for their claims.

I don’t think many are. Most are clueless. If you ask just would you mind a camera if it stops a crime sure people would say yes but if you asked it with all the details of what that data is used for beyond solving crime they’d for sure mostly say no.

> Are you OK with being tracked everywhere you go in public so that some bad guys don't get away with their bad activities? Many people are.

If it helps catch 1/10 criminals? or even 1 more out of 100 criminals than would be otherwise caught?

I am. I have nothing to hide. Also, in public, anyone can record you on video without your permission anyway.

> I have nothing to hide

What's your full name and current address? Where do you work? What locations do you frequent in your day-to-day life? Who do you live with and spend the most time with? Can you please list their full names and contact information? Would you mind turning on location tracking on your phone? Once you've done this, let me know and I'll email you so you can share it with me.

Also, what church do you attend? Is it the right one? Who’d you vote for last time? Who do you plan to vote for this time? Is your spouse or romantic partner the right kind of person? Are you sure? What hobbies do you have? What books are you reading? What’s really going on in that head of yours?

We’re going to need bank accounts. Not just the account number and routing number, to validate transaction history against known Terrorist organization affiliated bank accounts but also their login information so we can review credit card statements and so on.

Because they have nothing hide they shouldn’t fear anyone being able to access this information after all.

But Flock doesn't ask for this nor does it gather this information. I know what you are trying to do. You are trying to say this is just the first step to a full invasion of privacy. Except it's not. They are trying to make America safer. They don't want full control of your life. You are taking this example too far to the extreme.

Also Flock cameras just record license plates. Have you ever been to South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore or any other democratic nation with lots of CCTVs? Have you seen the crime rates there? basically 0. I wish we could have those levels of crime in the U.S.

Oh but they do [1][2]!

It's very suspicious that you're being so uncooperative. I'm starting a Flock competitor and we sell our products to law enforcement and private businesses [3]. You seem to be against giving me this data, which feels anti-American and against traditional American values which are clearly afoul of NSPM-7 [4]. This will earn you a label of "potential domestic terrorist" in our database [5]. This, in combination with your "ethnic"-sounding username is enough to gain the attention of our users [6][7], so I suggest you comply to make America safer.

Why don't we start with something simpler? How about just your license plate number, current location, and a photograph of your vehicle taken while you're driving it (ideally along routes which we know you take so that you're not flagged [8][9])? Flock collects this information (along with a history of where that plate was recognized), so surely this shouldn't be an issue?

[1] https://www.404media.co/license-plate-reader-company-flock-i...

[2] https://www.flocksafety.com/products/flock-nova

[3] https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-launches-first-ever-b...

[4] https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/coun...

[5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46903556

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavanaugh_stop

[7] https://www.404media.co/emails-reveal-the-casual-surveillanc...

[8] https://apnews.com/article/immigration-border-patrol-surveil...

[9] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46909480

I mean data brokers already do know all this.

I completely agree with you in spirit but I just can't imagine in 25 years, people won't be wearing spacial computing AR glasses with face recognition and all this is going to be out in the open.

If we were not going to evolve into a total surveillance state we wouldn't be at the state we are now.

We need to learn this lesson from 1984 "Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."

Nothing to hide? Apparently you can be labeled a domestic terrorist for denouncing ICE. Who knows what the next president will escalate to terror. Maybe tofu will be too woke. Congrats on becoming the 1 more out of 100 caught, you domestic terrorist you.

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