Luce: First Electric Ferrari
ferrari.com
ferrari.com
As an Apple Car™ it makes sense, but as a Ferrari it's incredibly soulless and oversimplified. This Ive design aesthetic (Dieter Rams' aesthetic really) is fine on consumer electronics where you want the device to disappear and give way to the display, but on something as emotional as a vehicle (Ferrari especially), this design falls flat.
I do hope some of the design details work their way through the industry (e.g. using glass instead of gloss black plastic, convex glass to add depth to digital gauges), but I hope the rest of it stays as a one-off experiment demonstrating the hubris and one-dimensionality of a top designer.
Instead it feels like sitting inside an iPad which is an aesthetic already cheaply deployed at massive scale to motels, pharmacies, and shitty coffee shops.
Generally speaking, cars are not about simple designs/shapes. They, especially to enthusiasts, are viewed as something closer to art where care is taken to craft shapes and forms for both function and feel. This is amplified dramatically for Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc..
Ive was clearly doing this design work for the Apple EV that never shipped. It followed Apple's historic design aesthetic (driven largely by him) of simplifying things as much as possible--using circles and squircles everywhere, removing as many unnecessary geometry as possible. That's fine for an Apple EV because that's their design aesthetic. That is, demonstrably, not Ferrari's design aesthetic. It's a jarring departure from decades of automotive design and, in my professional opinion, an exercise in hubris.
As we remember that design is largely subjective and that this is all my opinion, I will say that almost everything in the vehicle is overly simplified:
* Steering wheel: an attempt at modern retro, but they added two blobs (to keep the steering wheel simple) to house the dials and buttons instead of incorporating it in a sculpted, thoughtful way. Instead of putting the turn signals in those blobs (or elsewhere), they interrupted the simple steering wheel with a couple circles to act as the turn signals.
* Digital instrument cluster: it's an iPad that connects to the base of the steering wheel. Wasted space in the top corners. Convex glass is a really nice touch however. Gauges are strange to me (gas gauge for an EV, left dial is confusing at first glance, G-force gauge unnecessarily busy), but that can always be changed later so not worth waxing on about.
* The key: a small iPhone 4. It's not terrible, but it's rather uninspired and boring. Ferraris aren't supposed to be boring.
* Dashboard interface: another iPad, but with a Mac Pro handle on it. Might be very nice for moving it, but how often are you going to do that? Does it stick out far enough to act as a wrist-rest as mentioned in their video? The mechanical switches are a nice touch if the display/UI keeps up. The clock/compass/stopwatch in the top right is neat, but almost antithetical to the rest of the design--it's added complexity for the sake of complexity. I still like it though.
* Vents: these make sense to be simplified. I've never loved the number of flaps in most vehicles, but if you have kids you might have issues with toys/food getting lost inside if there's no mesh behind it.
* Seats are nice, but if you removed the Ferrari emblem would you know it's a Ferrari? Is there enough bolstering for spirited driving?
The shapes, iconography, etc. are all carried over from Apple devices. Cars, even in EV form, are not iPads and iPhones. Cars, particularly those like Ferraris, are supposed to be designed, sculpted, given character and flare in order to evoke emotion.
Rivian and Porsche, in my opinion, have designed beautiful EVs (inside and out). They have a design aesthetic that's unique to them and in the case of Porsche stays true to the brand. The Ferrari Luce looks like Ferrari hired Ive to take whatever work he did for Apple and copy paste it over to them. If this was announced as an Ive + Kia/Hyundai/Honda/Lexus/etc. collaboration would it look any more or less out of place? No, because it's been simplified to the point that it doesn't even look designed any more. It almost feels "default" in a way.
This is all just my opinion as someone that's been doing product engineering and industrial design for a long time and happens to love cars--take it with a grain of salt.
It would have been much better imho to for instance have lots of tiny screens embedded in the dashboard/console alongside their respective buttons. Each "app" gets their own toggle and physical dials. That would have been expensive and cool and could have been made not-tacky. (Like some cars are, expensive and cool but also without any class whatsoever, they look like a teenage gaming room.)
Well, that’s not (yet) possible, but this video does a good job in the meantime:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wv1btxCjVE&pp=ygUQTG92ZWZyb20...
The interface / ergonomics on the other hand end up way more important than anything else when it comes to personal enjoyment of the interior.
That's another 20 years mate.
Even with my other car that is mostly just a screen all but A/C is physical controls, but one really shouldn't be messing around with that while the car is in motion anyways, outside of operating the defrosters. I manage to practically never touch the AC.
It went from below freezing nearly every day to 80F+ in a week. I didn't have to touch the AC controls once. I don't get why people choose to distract themselves by toying around with the AC controls while driving. Focus on driving. Let the thermostat keep the car comfortable.
When the car is in motion you really shouldn't be messing with anything in the center console. I don't even bother with the volume knob on the stereo, just use the media controls on the wheel. Why take your hands off the steering controls when you don't have to?
[0]: https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/our-world/brand-stories/as...
Strongly disagree. To each their own...
I can see a car company who doesn't care about design stumbling into this outcome, but Ferrari doesn't seem like that kind of company. So the choice must have been intentional.
This feels like a modern Ferrari F40 dashboard and I like it a lot.
I used to have a 308. You don't notice the dash design much while being distracted by the noise it makes, heavy steering and awkward gear change. Nice body styling though.
All of that and still they come up with a 2300 kg compact two row SUV.
So, if you are going to be redesigning everything anyway to try to get rid of as much weight as possible, why not hire a designer known for sparse, minimalistic, clean design? It makes sense. It may not be what Ferrari buyers want, but you can't really blame Ferrari for giving it a try. We'll see how well it sells.
On an electric sports car, where does the break lie between extra weight for a powerful battery and too much weight to make the car go vroom?
Side note: I wonder if, in 20 years, petrol cars will the preserve of the very rich and the very poor.
Sure, except the very poor will be eco criminals (due to being unable to maintain their equipment to relevent emission standards/pay the associated offset fees) and will be selectively hounded and exploited by law enforcement.
What about the EV unafordaniks?
In a few years new EVs prices will be below equivalent ICE vehicles. Total cost of ownership already often is.
Second-hand EVs already are a bargain. EV owners complain about poor resale prices, but that's good for the buyer.
(I would be very interested in sticker price / fuel price / subsidy / tax accounting EV vs ICE breakdowns from inside China)
China's got this, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV
e.g.
https://carowl.co.uk/wisdombase/selling/car-scrappage-scheme...
and will be selectively hounded and exploited by law enforcement.
(diesel will hang on a lot longer, so there may be a period of refinery retuning and petrol stations serving only diesel?)
Not claiming this would be free or anything like that, just that a well-known possibility exists.
* I forget the technical name, my GCSEs were 26 years ago
Perhaps, but don't diesel engines also run on used chip fat lightly sieved to get rid of the potato solids?
That's certainly the way it's worked out with horses after petrol cars took over.
I guess the poor get donkeys...
We think about farming with horses, because in the American West the type of plow that worked best needed faster speeds than the oxen could handle and so for 100 years the horse is what farmers used. Horses were also useful for cowboys chasing cows - again an activity most common in the western planes.
Mercedes, Bentley and Bugatti likes to build road missiles. Fast and comfortable, luxurious cars with insane straight line performance and stats, but not made to be thrown from corner to corner in a track. Since these cars are heavier and have somewhat higher center of gravity, they can't pull higher G numbers on skid pads and tracks. They also have somewhat slower lap numbers (Maybe Mercedes' SLR McLaren is an exception to this, but it's half McLaren, so...).
If you want to go to the edge of it, see McLaren and Pagani. They take the track-optimized, lightweight car design to extremes. Esp. McLaren.
Edit: I mixed up CLK-GTR with SLR. My bad, brain haze. Sorry.
Yes, the added weight is bad for handling which is a shame especially in a car like this.
The weight savings aren't that big of a deal, they do that in every car and it's mostly marketing. But if you're one of those brands that can sell the same car, but use some fancy metals and such for a 50k markup, why would you not.
A gas 911 GT3 RS with less than half the horsepower laps it in 6:49.3.
The 911 by most measures is the slower car (10.9s 1/4 mile vs 9.2s for the Taycan, 184mph top speed vs 190 etc). The difference is the 911s superior handling and braking and that mostly comes down to the difference in weight.
One simply can't make a tonne disappear, in handling terms.
Additionally the battery must be protected in the event of the crash, so its casing must survive intact.
I mean, it's possible that some manufacturers might do it a little bit to put it on the marketing brochure, but the additional design headaches and safety concerns mean that there's just not that much to gain.
This is technically true, but structural batteries are not the same as stressed engines like on a motorcycle. In the latter, the engine fully replaces a frame member with essentially just the engine block. With structural batteries the cells themselves are not taking on any stress (they could, but yeah its not a very safe idea) but the outside containment is stil doing double duty. Its a pretty minor weight savings because the battery case does not need to be as strong as the frame does, but its not fair to say that structural batteries are not done. Even when they are just bolting on to a subframe, they're still usually doing things for frame stiffness.
Handling and “sports car feel” are affected by weight, though, and this is the real reason that Ferrari would want to cut weight to a minimum on their EV.
Batteries are not heavy, range is heavy. Range is the sacrifice and sports cars don't need range.
> See how they brag about a simpler new steering wheel that is 400g lighter?
As if ferrari -as if all sportscar manufacturers- have not done the same always. Replacing door handles with straps is not new.
Topping off everyday at home just doesn't register. Driving 7 hours with only one 30 minute charge doesn't register.
It either needs to function like a gas car, or it's not even worth considering.
The Vernon Hotel at which The Twelve True Fishermen held their annual dinners was an institution such as can only exist in an oligarchical society which has almost gone mad on good manners. It was that topsy-turvy product—an “exclusive” commercial enterprise. That is, it was a thing which paid not by attracting people, but actually by turning people away. In the heart of a plutocracy tradesmen become cunning enough to be more fastidious than their customers. They positively create difficulties so that their wealthy and weary clients may spend money and diplomacy in overcoming them. If there were a fashionable hotel in London which no man could enter who was under six foot, society would meekly make up parties of six-foot men to dine in it. If there were an expensive restaurant which by a mere caprice of its proprietor was only open on Thursday afternoon, it would be crowded on Thursday afternoon.
I sometimes wonder whether listening to Public Enemy rap “Don’t believe the hype” at a young age wired me for life.
The worst is the center Tesla like display. Steve Jobs IMO would have drawn the line there and said no displays. He probably would have said you should connect your phone and fiddle with whatever in the app.
The overhead Launch pull button is really silly. This is screaming look at me and my mid life crisis.
But since it's all about the interface, I must say, the idea of a sports car with a touch screen is still rather terrifying.
The ev powertrain last October, this, and the exterior in May.
Now when Ive was still at Apple, the first screenshots of iPhone showed a time of 9:42 because that was the time they expected when the device was first shown. And that time was placed in all the official PR images well in advance.
Extracting from that, a Monday the 25th could be the time we'll first see the full car. Going through all 25ths of each month this year, May is indeed the only month where it falls on a Monday, so it's probably the 25th of May.
This is way better than what VW and other manufacturers have been doing in the last 5 years. At least VW is going back to physical controls as customers weren't satisfied with the capacitive buttons and hidden menus for essential functions.
From this point of view the announced change in e.g. steering wheel buttons seems mostly cosmetic rather than fundamental. I hope they still keep the slider functionality on the wheel, it's quite intuitive and quicker imho. The bigger change would be that they're adding a central switch bar back, which seems to have the functions on it that are currently dedicated buttons in the main display. This seems like a clearer UX win to me.
There's a lack of consistency on the wheel controls that make this look more like a UX showcase rather than a usable interface.
Case in point:
- A bunch of rotary knob that perform the same function: to select. But, they all look different and use different ways to represent the selection.
- Some have a lighted indicator, some have a notch, and some are completely ambiguous.
- The 2, 1, *, 0 switch has a hole in it to indicate the currently selected option.
- The plastic surrounding this is is mere millimeters of thickness and I would expect it to break off within a decade.
I'd rather have this than all of them look the same. If you're driving in rain and need to swap to wet tyre mode, but have to spend time figuring out which generic knob does the thing, it's dangerous.
My car has every button and knob share the same design language but all subtly - or not so subtly - different so that the moment a control is touched there is zero ambiguity as to a) how to operate it and b) which one it is.
Appearance also comes into play as one doesn't necessarily have to _look straight at_ something to distinguish which is which or what the position is, merely it being somewhere in peripheral vision may very well give just enough clue so that you don't really have to take your eyes off of the road.
Their interiors look high-end, functional and not just a minimalist big computer screen.
https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g46528574/2024-porsche-m...
I would really like to have analog features back, buttons and all that, in an EV.
In tesla ( trend setter for this) big screen is functional, and it can show you multi media, when you charge you watch netflix.
this screen is not capable of multi media....
Rivian is the only excellent one.
Touch screen buttons, especially the ones on the far edge of the center screen, are harder to accurately hit for most people. More physical buttons = better = more premium.
https://cdn-fastly.thetruthaboutcars.com/media/2022/07/20/94...
There’s a roughly 7 inch above the vents that flips up whenever the car is off, but using the screen is optional. The screen is up near the road, and it’s very safe to use. There’s a small joystick to move the cursor.
Screen up:
https://preview.redd.it/after-about-a-year-of-ownership-post...
CT also has a stateless “springy gear selector” which works the same way as a manual gear selector, but after selecting the gear it springs back, so it’s stateless. It also has tactile blocking for gears you can’t enter yet. It felt extremely satisfying.
CT got a 10/10 from me, like a small aircraft cockpit. Enough knobs and computers to be exciting, but not OTT. Made a hybrid micro hatchback feel exciting.
Whoever started this trend has a lot to answer for. It looks tacky as hell and is a technically-inferior solution to just having a dock that would let a customer bring their own tablet. It's truly the worst of both worlds and a seemingly pervasive problem across multiple manufacturers in the automotive design space.
This is in contrast to consumer electronics which are not hard realtime, also they would probably melt and catch fire if left inside the car in direct sunlight.
Personally I’m very happy with the interior of my 2012 Cayenne.
Because they have different design constraints.
It didn’t take long for car manufacturers to figure out that a horseless carriage doesn’t have to look like a carriage. Early ones such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benz_Velo certainly did. You can even see it somewhat in the Ford model T.
Similarly, an electric car doesn’t need an exhaust, and if the engines are in the wheels it doesn’t need a transmission tunnel.
That changes the design constraints, so chances are the optimal design looks different.
Ferrari may not have nailed it, but it's a move to the right direction.
My car has it - shows EVERY spec of dust. Every finger smudge. Cleaning with a microfiber cloth left scratches.
The only thing I can think of is that it's designed to reduce resell value
Elements of it are precious and well designed. But it doesn't feel like a car interior.
I knew someone who allegedly worked on the Special Project after a successful career at more familiar premium automotive brands. He was expressing exasperation with the process and said "I don't get why they're letting people who don't like cars design one. You wouldn't send your kids to a school full of teachers that hate children!"
It looks like something from Fisher Price.
But I'm clearly not the target audience.
e.g.
> a 0–100 km/h (62 mph) acceleration time of 2.36 seconds, and a quarter mile (402 m) drag race time of 9.78 seconds. ... unofficially the fastest production car in the world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangwang_U9
> Model S Plaid Takes 2.07 Seconds to Accelerate from 0-100 mph
They're so ungodly heavy because of the batteries that they handle like barges. They need giant tyres and so much ESC and software control because these things weigh almost 2000kg or more. You can try and work around it but there's only so much that can be done to make 2000kg take a corner.
Looking at where sports cars will be in 10 years with ICEs being regulated out of existence makes me very sad because it seems like we're about to see the death of the lightweight sports car.
Under 1000kg for a reasonable price probably means building your own electrified exocar.
The weight of the batteries isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I expect car makers will prioritize range. I think the engineering to make an EV truly light like an old Integra Type R (1100kg) will be obscenely expensive and sacrifice so much on practicality it just won't be a viable product as a road car.
The car would be so compromised to be that light nobody will make the car, at least at an affordable price. You'll end up with a limited range, limited power, uncomfortable car for a price way out of line with what you're getting.
I think you could make a ~150kw-180kw EV pretty light, but considering the ongoing power pissing contest in modern cars I'm not sure how well it would market test.
So I expect the market will stick to heavy cars with big power because it's easier to build and easier to sell.
That was potentially 36 years ago. 36 years from 1990 would have been 1954.
What changed in technology from 1954->1990, vs change in technology from 1990-2026? Quite a lot.
Because of the electronics. They're vastly different, there's tons more, and they're proprietary.
The only successful vehicle which has that is a driver-training car built in China. It's electric, but has a clutch pedal and shifter which are inputs to the software. You can even "stall the engine".[1]
[1] https://www.jalopnik.com/this-chinese-electric-car-designed-...
I think by simulating a transmission you mean those internal combustion engined cars with CVT transmissions. Those are terrible yes.
At some point you have to accept a technology transition. Otherwise you sound like someone arguing against motor cars because the real thrill of transportation was the horse’s clippity-clop.
This is the closest we've ever got to the Apple Car.
Obviously it's weird to not showcase the exterior of a Ferrari, that being pretty much the entire point of Ferrari. The cynic in me can't help but think this may be due to the fact that it looks like a lowered Hyundai with a body kit[1].
[1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a70279106/ferrari-luce-ev-...
I hope it’s not accurate. If so, interior looks more interesting than the exterior
That being said, I wonder what can be cloned from this by others. The ICE are huge and refined and people can steal that engineering into other cars. With battery and motors, I feel like everyone is now on a level playing field and starts from zero. I wonder what will set apart a Ferrari from others.
I didn't see any.
technically no, since it doesn't come at all yet. It has yet to be launched. But the exterior is likely final or close to it by now.
Dripfeeding details in advance is a publicity move. It makes people hungry to see more. Expect to see it some time before launch in 2026.
In many other cars that look would have been sleek.
Weird, because that's exactly what it looks like.
And what even is the gauge on the left? It's just numbers without units.
This just looks like a gimmick because they wanted three gauges but lost engine RPM. Excusable for something like a wristwatch which is only there for aesthetic reasons, but a car where the gauges are there for safety reasons?
It's always funny to me that electronic speed controllers and electronic stability control have the same initials. ESC off, you have disconnected the motor!
The interior is akin to something from a compact Chinese car. Nothing to do with Ferrari.
https://bigrigs.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/CASCADIA-D...
Anyway, whether it's a Ferrari or other, I'm always disappointed by touchscreen in cars.
And as I said it before, it always seems and afterthought and just put there because someone forgot about it.
I'm guess I'm getting old but when I'm driving I usually look at the road and couldn't car less about a nice touchscreen.
(I knew they would eventually listen to me!)
Not clear yet on the exact charge speed or launch date. Or what the 0-100km/h time is, but expect a low number, of course. That number has to be eye-catching.
They have to have specs in the same league though, and then differentiate. e.g. the 880 V platform indicates that the charging speed may be up to this year's benchmark for "good".
This teaser for the interior design will be part of differentiation campaign.
That said an electric Ferrari is not a car built for me. If I could justify such a car I'd want something practical or that makes a great noise. "Fun" to drive would not be on my agenda.
Also, how soulless is this car. Some cars I get into (previous gen Audis, used to with BMWs, Porsche) and feel that they’ve built the interior for the drivers enjoyment. This, no clue.
Classic Ferrari. I think?
The website doesn’t even work properly. I can’t scroll all the way to the end on my iPhone.
This is big. Ferrari, as a brand, is the top cult of internal combustion engine.
For them to release an EV is like Apple releasing an Windows computer or Android phone.
Soon, the last holdout of big oil will be the American government.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd....
After having spent (way too much) time in automotive interior and UI-design and leaving the field based on the realization that classic car design organisations across almost all manufacturers are mostly driven by "aesthetics" and gimmicky "tech"-quirks but do not seem to care about actual usability and utility, i had high hopes that Ive would be the one to come up with an interior that actually makes sense.
This might be harsh, but I'm afraid, this will have the same effect on the car industry as Liquid Glass will spill nonsensical decoration for effect's sake across software outside of Apple, taking years to clean up.
Starting with the Steering wheel - Indicators as buttons, really? Then the control modules on the wheel: Good luck figuring out how to use the ACC. Zero buttons for Volume, Prev/Next or even OK/Cancel to navigate anything - meaning you'll have to take your hands off the wheel for almost everything.
Plus, it's a very thin rim and for a performance car not the best choice IMHO.
Good thing though there's ginormous paddles for "torque control". </s>
The instrument cluster is a giant housing for three display areas that are anything but modern, aka Retrobore and in some cases not very good or clear - eg. tire pressure or the three scales in the power dial per mode that are very similar and probably too technical for most users.
I hope there's going to be some customization.
For the head unit itself, while it's nice having the option to swivel the unit it seems overengineered for a secondary feature.
While I'm happy to see physical switches and a rotary dial, the choice for what is being used as switches seems not ideal since the length of the switches might make it hard to use. People won't feel a shape/form and press it, but rather have to put in some muscular effort to hit the switch from the top or bottom and at the right angle - even if you can rest your palm on the handle of the unit.
As for visual design within the UI it almost seems unfinished and not very polished, let alone "luxurious" - especially the climate control screen.
Overall a missed opportunity that carries on the clutter we see today coming out of car manufacturers and neglects core utility in the automotive context.
It's neither focused and clean like most Apple products have been designed nor very emotional or even close to being "Ferrari".
It's the same problem as with everything automotive interior today (and for way too long already):
Decisions driven by automotive-/industrial designers who are caring for sculptural appearances first.
I sincerely hope that at some point we can see this as a chapter from the past - at a point in time where the DRIVER/passengers and ACTUAL utility are paramount and developed with software (and it's established rules about usabililty and affordance) being an integral part.
To add some more snark: Maybe Ive should care less about being chauffered in a Bentley and spend some actual time behind the wheel.
Showing myself out now.
</rant>
Moreover the battery will degrade over time so it's not a good long term investment (unlike ICE cars where 100 year old machines still run fine). I'm sure there will still be some buyers but the margins are going to get squeezed and the Rich Oil Sheikh will reconsider their purchasing choices when it gets overtaken by a Chinese EV equivalent at 1/10th of the price. I really don't see how Ferrari can support its brand with a toy car like this.
A car that John Doe can afford to buy isn’t a status symbol. Why would a rich oil sheik buy that?
They’ll want something that signals wealth.