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Comment by AceJohnny2 | Hacker News Reader

Apple has been slowly tightening the screws on app notarization (code signing) requirements for running apps on macOS. To do it properly you need to be a registered developer ($100/year), and they're certainly not making it easy if you don't have access to a Mac.

https://support.apple.com/guide/security/app-code-signing-pr...

> On devices with macOS 10.15, all apps distributed outside the App Store must be signed by the developer using an Apple-issued Developer ID certificate (combined with a private key) and notarized by Apple to run under the default Gatekeeper settings.

Re: Developer ID Certificates: https://developer.apple.com/help/account/certificates/create...

I suspect the friction that users are facing are due to dodging the above requirements.

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The whole sdk has a restriction that you can't use it off platform. The code signing thing is just a tax on ios devs

You need an apple ID. You cannot create one without using an apple device.

You can absolutely make an appleID without an Apple device. You can make one in-browser right now. https://account.apple.com/account?create

I stand corrected.

Have you actually tried it? Because I did some months ago to setup an AppleTV and it just does not work. It just hangs at the last step without telling you anything. If you inspect the server response it just says "Your account cannot be created at this time.".

What ultimately helped after weeks of trying and tinkering was installing VMware Workstation, patching it to enable macOS support, create a VM with the specific hardware configuration of an older MacBook, install an old version of macOS and do the 2FA from in there.

Use the link in my comment, it takes you straight to their signup page.

Think of it this way: if you required an apple device in order to make an Apple ID, then literally every single podcaster on Apple podcasts (which is still the dominant app for podcasts) must own an Apple device.

Did you even read what I wrote? It did not work. Apple even has an FAQ page for that error (without any useful solution). The suggestion to create an account via Apple Music app is useless since all it does is create an account which must be migrated via browser first (with the same problem). You can also find large threads on Reddit about the problem. Of course the availability of such a sign-up flow suggests it should be possibly, but having it broken for months is not a good look.

Needing an apple device to compile for an apple device is not an unreasonable requirement. Paying $100 every year is.

No, sorry, but it is unreasonable.. Why should I need an apple device to compile my code for an apple device?

You can build Android apps on an Apple device, no problem. You can build Linux apps on an Apple device, no problem. etc... But the reverse isn't true. Its just more of Apple financially gate keeping their ecosystem so they make more money in as many channels as they possibly can.

Testing on real hardware is the ONLY time I would say that owning, or at least having access to the hardware has real tangible benefits, and I would argue that that you NEED or SHOULD do this.. But to block compiling to that ecosystem? Sorry but I fundamentally disagree.

Blocking compiling, means requiring xcode, which requires a mac, which requires you to give more money to Apple, and is no different IMHO than giving Apple $100 a year, because now you're giving them a lot more of that every X years (where x is how many years that laptop gets updates)

For decades, Microsoft only made Visual C++ for Windows, and alternatives like DJGPP weren't very good. This isn't unreasonable, it's just how programming works when you target a platform. Visual C++ relies on Windows because it's a Windows program, and Xcode is written for MacOS, not for Java or Electron.

What is stopping you from writing an open source alternative to Xcode that runs on Linux?

...The code signing requirement?

Why can't code be signed with open source tools?

you can code-sign with open-source tools. That's not the hard part. Signing with a certificate trusted by macOS , that's where there's no avoiding having to go to Apple.

Of course, but that wasn't the complaint, was it? The complaint was having to build on an apple device

If you only publish free apps... you only pay $100 once.

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