Wired's Review of the Microsoft Surface | Hacker News Reader

Wired's Review of the Microsoft Surface

wired.com

I like this review. It's genuinely quirky, and no bullshit.

Honestly despite all the quibbles (across all the reviews) I think this is a big win for MS. The praise for the fit and finish, the feeling of the kickstand, the click in of the covers, the covers themselves - it's astronomical. Words like 'meticulous' and 'remarkable' are massive praise here. This might be revision one, but sounds like it definitely holds its own against the iPad. MS has made a product that is extremely, extraordinarily confident. And that's the most important thing really - because they've lacked or seemed to lack confidence against Apple for a while, and it's been their biggest problem.

Gosh I'm excited. This only bodes well, for MS and for us. A reinvigorated MS will be an amazing thing to experience - it's time for an end to this boring iEverything monoculture! I personally cannot wait for Apple to get their smugness rubbed right back in their snotty faces.

> Yes, you can use it as your only computer. I would never have made that claim about an iPad or Android tablet. But if you only need to live in Microsoft Office and the web and e-mail, and use your computer for media consumption, you’ll do great with this.

So an "only computer" requires Microsoft Office, everything else is negotiable.

For 90% of the working world, I'd say that is a true statement. I personally need compilers and geeky utilities, but my boss could probably get by with a browser and a copy of MS Office just fine. My bosses boss definitely could.

I work deep in IT (information security) and spend 90% of my working time in the browser looking at our security monitors. Another 5% in Word preparing memos or taking notes. The rest is split between the command prompt (nslookup, ping, basic stuff), Excel, OneNote (time/project tracking), SSH, and that's about it. Everything else I do at work is personal stuff done on personal time at the office.

I'm not a boss of anything or manager of anything. Programmers will always need computers targeted to whatever they are programming to, but I would guess that most other IT workers would be fine with a browser and Office (except stupid legacy apps that your office makes you use that were written in Java, talking to VB6 which really only interfaces with a database. You know what I'm talking about).

yes, "only computer" is incredibly dependent on what your needs are, and there's a very diverse range of those. My inlaws have been using an iPad as their only computer for about 4 months now and doing fabulously (they love it), but for myself I need a unix terminal and good text editor

It's why the old "which is best" argument is completely useles without a qualifier "for ..."

For our CEO and GM, that's true. Add a citrix client and it could be an only computer for the rest of our staff except for me.

I believe it has an RDP client. If it does I'm buying one, if it doesn't I probably won't.

http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/ru-RU/app/remote-desktop/05...

Well all the speculation can be put to rest, the keyboard cover works and fantastically.

It sounds like it just works. And after "[struggling] mightily with typos and finger placement for the first 24 hours". Who's going to put up with that?

Someone that just spent $600 on a new tablet is probably gonna be just fine spending a few hours getting used to a new keyboard.

To be fair, I still struggle with my ipad keyboard after months of use. It frustrates the life out of me, because the keys shift depending on context.

The keys shift depending on the context? Would you mind expanding?

(guy who touch types, with a bazillion typos, on a samsung galaxy s)

For example when you're typing in an email field, the @ symbols appears in the main key set. Not sure what it replaces , but something disappears.

I'm wondering why you would want that touch keyboard in the first place. If their laptop-style keyboard is just as thin and it gives you tactile feedback, what's the reason for touch-only style?

Sounds like the touch keyboard is a slightly better cover, and slightly cheaper. I think if you want a laptop replacement that can be used as a tablet, go for the real keyboard. If you want a tablet that can occasionally double as a laptop, get the touch keyboard.

The laptop keyboard is in no wise as thin as the touch keyboard.

I don't get the whole "not enough apps in the app store" critique. What are they expecting? The tablet is not even out yet and they expect a million apps or what? Obviously this is a problem with a new operating system... It's a valid critique in a way but there is nothing Microsoft can do short of hiring ten thousand developers to just make apps for it before launch.

They could have allowed running native applications. Not really sure how they expect to sell the Surface RT when it's competing with the Surface Pro. Except maybe the price of the Pro will be far out (I haven't found a price so far for Pro, it's not yet known?). Also if they had supported XNA for that thing formerly known as Metro they would at least have more games now. I'm rather puzzled why they don't support one of their most popular libraries for game development when introducing a new platform.

Probably time and other resource constraints. I'm pretty sure their wishlist of things they would have liked to have finished by launch date is quite long :-)

What native applications are there for Windows on ARM?

If you're a prospective buyer, knowing the availability of popular software is valuable knowledge.

I, for one, would not want to buy a $500+ tablet based on its potential for running good software.

Yes, but they're acting as if this is a permanent disadvantage of this device. And again, I think it's a bit harsh to judge before it's even been released. If there were like 10 apps I'd be worried, but there are around 5000 apps already, and Win 8 will be running on plenty of desktops and laptops as well as tablets, so I think this is not really a fair critique quite just yet.

The review starts out comparing the Surface to the iPad, saying both are better and worse than the other in different ways. But then the review goes on the trash almost everything unique to the Surface. It sounds like a rather splendid failure. I doubt we will be talking much about this product in 2-3 years.

That's not the conclusion I came away with. He wrote at the end "this is a great device." Obviously the jury's out on whether or not this thing will actually sell (and thus be worth talking about 2-3 years from now), but he clearly doesn't conclude that Surface is a failure.

*2-3 months. It's been stated a dozen times around here and elsewhere on the web, but with the Surface, Microsoft has realized the old Native American adage: "chase two rabbits, catch neither". The Surface misses the mark as a "no compromises" device. The tablet experience is stunted by the awkwardly long screen in portrait mode, anemic app ecosystem, and size/heft. The laptop experience fumbles with that kickstand that really only works on a hard, flat surface. The deceptive Windows desktop will be hostile to unwitting users of the Surface with Microsoft Windows RT edition -- since they will assume the desktop environment is backwards compatible with their existing apps.

On the bright side, it looks like a good first effort in terms of hardware and build quality. I'd really like to see Microsoft "go all in" and shed the Desktop environment altogether in its next iteration of the OS.

Wow, looks awesome and for business, the ability to use Microsoft office is the "killer app", as much as I dislike ppt and word and wheel they are the staples of most companies so the lack if office on iPad is hurting it for business users and this will be just what they are looking for. I am glad to see a new player (although msft are well experienced at touch computers) and excited to get my hands on one. They hit the pain points of the iPad out of the park, can't type for toffee, and lack of msft office for work stuff. Google docs is great for trivial things but not for getting real work done in a team where everyone else has Office.

Isn't Microsoft planning to release an iOS version of Office sometime soon? Seems there was some leaked screenshots shown last month.

If this is the case, it makes the office integration less of a selling point.

unfortunately, these devices have no AD integration, or other Enterprise deployment stuff that typically makes windows appealing to businesses.

Agreed this is a real issue, but a professional buying a device personally is unlikely to care about those bits of the puzzle. Compared to the existing tablet market, Windows RT is significantly better in terms of enterprise integration.

How is it better? RT has zero AD support, Android apparently has lots of app options for centralised management.

It does support multiple user accounts (yes, not synced to AD, but better than Android and iOS) and FS encryption out of the box. MDM is baked into the platform; again, no Group Policy, but it can be managed through System Centre. It supports the concept of a mouse, it has USB, it can (I think) integrate with Sharepoint.

Not sure how much of that is a problem - how many meetings do I go to that have iPad users busily taking notes? AFAIK they're not integrating directly into the enterprise network, as long as they've got access to mail they're happy. If you could get a decent version of Office on there...

(Not that I completely disagree - AD integration would certainly be a massive additional advantage, I just don't think it's critical).

OneNote on Windows RT could be the killer app that makes me want one.

I want a sketchpad, handwriting recognition, the ability to insert audio clips and videos and images, OCR for text in those images... in fact let me take a photo, paste it in and then extract the text in the photo... quick text tools with basic formatting... and all of this should be searchable, shareable, integrated.

That's OneNote.

On the desktop I always felt OneNote was being held back. It begged and screamed for a tablet to bring it alive.

The only thing that makes the Surface compelling for me is: Does it have a full-featured OneNote?

Unfortunately the reality is that OneNote falls short just a little.

Surface has OneNote MX which is a version of OneNote that doesn't have feature parity with the desktop version.

And that sucks, as if it did Microsoft would have me buying a Windows OS once again, just for that application.

I've always recommended OneNote as one of THE best tablet application ever. Using it on TabletPC almost 4 years now.

It will really be a shame if it's not featured full-featured on Slate.

Well the good news is that you are mistaken, Surface RT comes with both the desktop version of OneNote and OneNoteMX. http://office.microsoft.com/en-nz/home-and-student/office-ho...

The reviews I've seen say that there are far fewer features. If you've ever tried OneNote on Android you'd know that in the worst case this could be just turning it into a basic note-taking program.

I want to be wrong, but nothing on the Microsoft site (or anywhere else I've seen) shows me a side-by-side compare of the features of OneNote for every platform and version.

What I've read is that OneNote is available for Surface, but it's a feature limited version. No real details on what features are limited or missing.

Everything that I've read claims that the differences between Office 2013 and Office RT are negligible. The full desktop version is definitely included, it's the metro version that lacks features.

Windows RT doesn't have desktop apps, they'll only be supported in Windows 8 on x86/64 processors. ARM tablets like this version of Surface are Metro only.

This is wrong. You're unable to install desktop apps, but there are desktop apps bundled, including Office Home & Student.

Here's a list of the differences: http://blogs.office.com/b/office-next/archive/2012/09/13/bui...

The main thing missing from OneNote is audio/video recording and searching, though you can insert audio/video files from elsewhere.

I think the Surface with Windows 8 Pro (perhaps its second generation since current one's too bulky) is a killer business product. Put it down on a table with the keyboard, and it's a fully-powered laptop! Pick it up and fold back the keyboard, and it's a fully-powered tablet!

The inability to install anything on the desktop OS apart from the Office makes it less compelling as a laptop.

But the jailbreaks will come sooner or later, anyway.

edit: oh, you speaked about x86 version. Well I would guess this will have higher energy consumption and be less compelling as a tablet.

Yeah. It looks like the current x86 version isn't going to be too popular, but I expect there will be an improved second generation that might take off.

22 paragraphs before getting into what the thing actually does.

22 paragraphs dominated by nobody noticing it, the kickstand is pretty good, and at first coerced glance people prefer iPads.

Then it gets into what the tablet isn't: Windows as you know it.

That's almost an Ubuntu logo on the f6 key. :P http://www.wired.com/reviews/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/tabl...

That is the sharing icon and it matches the meaning of Ubuntu:

ubuntu (uncountable)

(South Africa) A South African ideology focusing on people's allegiances and relations with each other

humaneness, solidarity

It's the Sharing Charm symbol that you get on the right.

That guy was slamming the keyboard and tablet around pretty aggressively

The tech industry is really fleshing out every form factor between phone and full sized laptop now.

As others have said this could fill a niche for who only need office in terms of productivity tools and also want the benefits of a tablet. So as well as business people students would fit that niche.

Personally though for anything productivity wise I am going to be happy to carry around a laptop, any tablet usage is purely as a consumer.

So how long until someone makes such a cover/touch-keyboard, with bluetooth, for the iPad?

They've tried. A lot. Newsflash: iOS is a touch-only OS born and bred, and trying to control it with a keyboard makes about as much sense as strapping tits on a bull. Sure, you can type away in an isolated text box and it's sorta alright, but beyond that you're looking at a severely hobbled experience - because that's what you get when you just inflate your apps 'n icons phone OS and toss a keyboard into the mix. Whereas Microsoft has developed their OS from the ground up to mix between different input styles and it shows.

Microsoft is simply leagues beyond Apple when it comes to really optimising for productivity. They -get- productivity - Apple doesn't.

Yeah, it would be nice for tablet diversity but it still feels like it doesn't know what it wants to be... haven't used it yet though so I'd be willing to be swayed.

>"doesn't know what it wants to be"

You could just as well say that about smartphones.

Can we enforce a tag or for auto-playing videos with sound, maybe?

I'll look into solutions on my side after the second most unfavorable situation because of links with this bull... on HN.

But please.. Mods, can't we change the to something helpful in these cases?

Something like NSFW (which it very well might be as well)?

Thank you very much for linking to the "view all" page.

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