> It cost $20,000
I'm curious - do you have ANY idea what it costs to have humans write 100,000 lines of code???
You should look it up. :)
I'm curious - do you have ANY idea what it costs to have humans write 100,000 lines of code???
You should look it up. :)
> I'm curious - do you have ANY idea what it costs to have humans write 100,000 lines of code???
I'll bite - I can write you an unoptimised C compiler that emits assembly for $20k, and it won't be 100k lines of code (maybe 15k, the last time I did this?).
It won't take me a week, though.
I think this project is a good frame of reference and matches my experience - vibing with AI is sometimes more expensive than doing it myself, and always results in much more code than necessary.
You may be willing to sell your work at that price, but that’s not the market rate, to put it very mildly. Even 10 times that would be seriously lowballing in the realm of contract work, regardless of whether it’s “optimised” or not (most software isn’t).
It is now.
At any rate, this is my actual rate. I live in South Africa, and that's about 4 weeks of work for me, without an AI.
You must provide the entire git history with small commits.
I won't be holding my breath.
> You must provide the entire git history with small commits.
> I won't be holding my breath.
Sure; I do this often (I operate as a company because I am a contractor) - money to be held in escrow, all the usual contracts, etc.
It's a big risk for you, though - the level of performance isn't stated in the linked article so a parser in Python is probably sufficient.
TCC, which has in the past compiled bootable Linux images, was only around 15k LoC in C!
For reference, for a engraved-in-stone spec, producing a command-line program (i.e. no tech stack other than a programming language with the standard library), a coder could reasonably produce +5000LoC per week.
Adding the necessary extensions to support booting isn't much either, because the 16-bit stuff can be done just the same as CC did it - shell out to GCC (thereby not needing many of the extensions).
Are you *really* sure that a simple C compiler will cost more than 4 weeks f/time to do? It takes 4 weeks or so in C, are you really sure it will take longer if I switch to (for example) Python?
No, you'll have to match the performance of the actual code, regardless of what happens to be written in the article. It is a C compiler written in Rust.
Obviously. Your games reveal your malign intent.
EDIT: And good LORD. Who writes a C compiler in python. Do you know any other languages?!?
Look, it's clear that you don't hire s/ware developers very much - your specs are vague and open to interpretation, and it's also clear that I do get hired often, because I pointed out that your spec isn't clear.
As far as "playing games" goes, I'm not allowing you to change your single-sentence spec which, very importantly, has "must match performance", which I shall interpret to as "performance of emitted code" and not "performance of compiler".
> Your games reveal your intent.
It should be obvious to you by know that I've done this sort of thing before. The last C compiler I wrote was 95% compliant with the (at the time, new) C99 standard, and came to around 7000LoC - 8000LoC of C89.
> EDIT: And good LORD. Who writes a C compiler in python. Do you know any other languages?!?
Many. The last language I implemented (in C99) took about two weeks after hours (so, maybe 40 hours total?), was interpreted, and was a dialect of Lisp. It's probably somewhere on Github still, and that was (IIRC) only around 2000LoC.
What you appear to not know (maybe you're new to C) is that C was specifically designed for ease of implementation.
1. It was designed to be quick and easy to implement.
2. The extensions in GCC to allow building bootable Linux images are minimal, TBH.
3. The actual 16-bit emission necessary for booting was not done by CC, but by shelling out to GCC.
4. The 100kLoC does not include the tests; it used the GCC tests.
I mean, this isn't arcane and obscure knowledge, you know. You can search the net right now and find 100s of undergrad CS projects where they implement enough of C to compile many compliant existing programs.
I'm wondering; what languages did you write an implementation for? Any that you designed and then implemented?
It's amazing what you can get people to do.
Reveal myself as ... a contractor agreeing to your bid?
> It's amazing what you can get people to do.
There's a ton of money now floating around in pursuit of "proving" how cost-efficient LLM coding is.
I'm sure they can spare you the $40k to put into escrow?
After all, if I don't deliver, then the AI booster community gets a huge win - highly respected ex-FAANG staff engineer with 30 years of verified dev experience could not match the cost efficiency of Claude Code.
I am taking you up on your original offer: $40k for a C compiler that does exactly what the CCC program in the video does.
A local Fintech needing PCI work pays that, but that's not long-term contracts.
All that this is saying is that license laundering of a code-base is now $20k away through automated processes, at least if the original code base is fully available. Well, with current state-of-the-art you’ll actually end up with a code-base which is not as good as the original, but that’s it.
The rate probably goes up if you ask for more and more standards (C11, C17, C23...) but it's still a lot easier than compilers for almost any other popular language.
I see no test criteria that actually runs that built linux through various test plans, so, yeah emitting enough asm just to boot is doable.
The problem is you may pay $20K for gibberish, then try a second time, fail again, and then hire humans.
Coincidentally yes, I am aware, my last contract was building out a SCADA module the AI failed to develop at the company that contracted me.
I'm using that money to finance a new software company, and so far, AI hasn't been much help getting us off the ground.
Edit: oh yeah, and on top of paying Claude to fuck it up, you still have to also pay the salary of the guy arguing with Claude.
You can easily pay humans $20k a day and get gibberish in output. Heck, this happen all the times. This happens right now in multiple companies.
Yes sometime humans produce nice code. This happens from time to time...
If you didn’t care about copying code, usefulness, or correctness you could probably get a human to whip you up a C compiler for a lot less than $20k.
And it's really expensive, despite your suspicions.
We figured out that LOC was a useless productivity metric in the 80s.
I fork Clang or GCC and rename it. I'll take only $10k.
I can get my 2y old child to output 100k LoC, but it won't be very good.
Sorry mate, I think you're tripping.
That level of quality should be sufficient.
Do you know any low quality programmers that write C compilers in rust THAT CAN BUILD LINUX?
No you don't. They do not exist.
You can give a developer the GCC test suite and have them build the compiler backwards, which is how this was done. They literally brute forced it, most developers can brute force. It also literally uses GCC in the background... Maybe try reading the article.
Also, the booting part, as stated some times, is discutable.
Huh. Interesting. Like the other guy pointed out, compiler classes often get students to write toy C compilers. I think a lot of students don't understand the meaning of the word "toy". I think this thread is FULL of people like that.
Lots of segfaults, too.
So, things you don't think I or my coursemates could do include writing a C compiler that builds a Linux kernel.
What else do you think we couldn't do? I ask because there are various projects I'll probably get to at some point.
Things on that list include (a) writing an OS microkernel and some of the other components of an OS. Don't know how far I'll take it, but certainly a working microkernel for one machine, if I have time I'll build most of the stack up to a window manager. (b) implementing an LLM training and inference stack. I don't know how close to the metal I'd go, I've done some low level CUDA a long time ago when it was very new and low-level, depends on time. I'll probably start the LLM stuff pretty soon as I'm keen to learn.
Are these also impossible? What other things would you add to the impossible list?
Amiga OS is basically a microkernel and that was built 40 years ago. There are also many other examples, like Minix. Do I think most people could build a full microkernel based mini Unix? No. But they could get “something” working that would qualify as an OS.
On the other hand, there are not many C compilers that build Linux. There are many implementations of C compilers, however. The goal of “build Linux” is much more specific.
So what other projects are impossible? That was my question.
Doing a real compiler to be used by humans is difficult. Doing a compiler that “gets the thing done” is a different thing.
I think you might be thinking of C++
I also should’ve qualified my message with “in 2 weeks”, or even “in 2 months.” Given more time it’s obviously possible for more people.