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Comment by gunsle | Hacker News Reader

As a long time marijuana user, these pro weed articles always crack me up. Sure it has some limited legitimate medical usages for pain or other applications. Vast majority of users are just addicts in denial, myself included for the longest time. Anthropologists in the future will be studying the effects of drastically increased marijuana consumption on society for decades in the future. I do wonder when the general populace will wake up to the propaganda, for example, how it’s clearly a gateway drug and clearly addictive on some level.

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How would it clearly be a gateway drug? I don't think this concept even makes sense. Sure if contact to X also brings you in contact with Y, you could see X as gateway to Y. But what contact to other drugs you have depends on where you acquire the Marijuana. If I home-grow I see none. In a pharmacy I need prescriptions to access their other drugs, so also not a gateway. It's only problematic when acquired via dealers who also sell other stuff. When I tried buying weed on the street, vendors didn't offer me other drugs.

I agree with your other points though.

I mean in my case, I never even considered drugs until I started smoking weed in college. So it was definitely a gateway drug for me. At first glance, weed has little to no noticeable downsides. This made me think that the other drugs must be the same way. It led me into a drug abuse phase of my life that I still struggle with. Prior to that, I barely did drugs at all and had no real inclination to do so.

I think part of it is the crowd you end up in when you smoke weed. Unsurprisingly, drug use lends itself to putting you in situations with other drug users. These users often completely ignore, leave out, or outright lie about the downsides of these drugs, from chronic weed use to LSD.

I don't agree with you, but I don't think that your experience is invalid. Just trying to understand your point, but don't you think that calling weed a gateway drug sounds like propaganda when a lot of addicted people started with alcohol and nobody dares to say that alcohol is a gateway drug? I'm not saying that you are doing propaganda, I just don't get this argument when alcohol, in my opinion, should have this title. And I say that as someone who doesn't use both, so I don't have a horse in this race

i think alcohol is also a gateway drug. anything that creates REAL addiction/disinhibition/escapism (not food). paradoxically i don't think cigarettes are a gateway drug, but weed is because of how it works

I think the percentage of people who drink alcohol and have never done any drugs is >50%, and I would bet that the percentage of people who smoke weed (not just once) who have also done other drugs is like 95%. There are plenty of people who will binge drink every weekend but think that smoking a joint is too far. I find that strange, but it is surprisingly common.

Let me set it straight. Alcohol is a gateway to alcoholism, weed is a gateway to coke and heroin. It is all about "what other things are sold by the supplier".

I think when pot was illegal it was much more likely to be a 'gateway' because it's connecting users to other illegal elements. The pot dealer may also deal in MDMA, lsd, coke, etc...

Now that pot is legal in so many places, it's less likely to gateway to anything - like alcohol.

> it's less likely to gateway to anything - like alcohol

That's a bad example to make your point. Alcohol is absolutely a gateway drug. I know many a cigarette smoker who had their first cig puff while intoxicated around other drinkers who were smoking.

When a commonplace and socially accepted drug like alcohol can amplify poor judgement and inhibition, the sky's the limit for what unfolds next.

My impression was that it is a well known fact that canabinoids help with neurogenesis. Random article on topic https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/behavioral-neuroscience...

But maybe its a pop-science kind of fact that I've been carring along all this time without factuality?

I can tell you from years of first hand experience, it certainly makes you far dumber. The biggest factor is loss of memory. Most stoners (myself included) have terrible memory. I used to have near photographic memory, where I’d only have to read things once to remember them nearly verbatim for months after. I genuinely wonder at times where I’d be in my life if I had never got sucked into it years ago. I’m doing great despite the problems it’s caused me, but who knows where I’d be without it.

A few of my friends are chronic users and have a characteristic that when talking to them even when not high, there is a noticeable pause. It's like when they do those news interviews from someone around the world via satellite. There is the question and then a pause while the person just stares blankly for second, then recognition of the question and the answer. Have you ever experienced this yourself or notice it in heavy users.

As a chronic user, this is something I experience while stoned, but not while sober. I have a lot of behaviors when sober that people tend to classify as ADHD-like and I suspect it is related to this pause. Normally, when sober, I have a tough time staying focused on one thing. I typically have many projects going at once - half of them forgotten. You should see me cleaning my house - the whole thing will look torn apart as I jump from one area to the next, until the very end.

But when stoned, during that pause, I'm finishing with processing another thought that is already in my head. I find it harder to context-switch immediately when stoned. This is very different from my normal experience when sober, where my brain is very "flighty." The other time I notice this type of pause is when I've entered a "flow state," e.g. when deep in a programming project.

Sometimes I can leverage this "focus" into productivity when stoned, but then I am often equally likely to get focused on the wrong thing.

That said, it's well established that marijuana use acutely reduces your reaction time.

you are witnessing the practice of thinking about the consequences of words before commiting to speech.

ive noticed most nonusers spit out automated responses, and have little to no recall of the conversation a few minutes after.

> you are witnessing the practice of thinking about the consequences of words before commiting to speech.

It feels different than that though. Its not unusual for someone to take beat before responding, but in that case there are facial and body cues that they heard you and are just getting their thoughts and words in order. But in the case of users, there is an expressionless pause even before that. More like blank pause, then facial cues of thinking, then an answer. That's why I used the 'via satellite' analogy because its like it takes longer for them to even register that they have been spoken to.

How long have you used cannabis? My memory was much better 20 years ago and I've never used cannabis.

To be fair, over the past year I've scaled my cannabis use way back and my memory is definitely better. But only like 30% better, which is nice but not a night and day difference. (Memory issues were not why I stopped.)

On the other hand, there's a certain creative groove that's a lot harder to get into now. So there's a tradeoff.

Just one guess, but a lot of memory formation happens during various sleep cycle(s). Persistent cannabis use is commonly associated with lack of dreaming, which suggests it interferes with normal sleep cycles.

I was experiencing lack of dreaming after some time of daily use, and was able to regain my ability to consistently dream (and remember them) by simply ceasing cannabis use by 5pm each day. I don't experience noticeable problems with memory, but YMMV.

> I can tell you from years of first hand experience, it certainly makes you far dumber. The biggest factor is loss of memory.

We all have anecdotes, and mine contradict yours.

All of the non-users of cannabis I know have terrible memory, and are often surprised by mine.

In my experience (short term) memory completely recovers after you stop smoking pot.

I started medical cannabis at 38 after leaving the military and it has been completely transformative for my Epilepsy/PTSD/CPTSD/arthritis and all of the other bullshit that came from being in the military for 17 years

100% of my doctors say (incl. Director level at Mt Sinai and orthopedic surgeons for the Washington commnders) are more than delighted with my prescription

so like that’s just your opinion man

Ha +1 for the Lebowski reference.

I’m not going to comment on the gateway drug part, but I definitely agree that - as someone who has consumed cannabis daily for about 30 years now - that I always smirks when only positives are being highlighted.

It definitely has negative effects long term. Concentration is impacted. In my case, it can cause anxiety. The impacts are subtle, but they’re there.

The negative side effects are definitely being underrepresented at the “non-scaremongering” parts of civilization.

Regarding anxiety,

Have you tried blending in CBD?

Typically I smoke small joints with 90% CBD strains and the rest a high THC strain, only thing I can smoke.

I think weed is actually far more insidious than most drugs, because it’s incredibly easy to be a functional stoner. The downsides don’t start to appear until you’re years down the road, and often the marijuana haze keeps you from fully evaluating just how detrimental those downsides have been on you. At that point, you’re legitimately addicted, and your brain begins to sweet talk any attempt at rationality.

For me, the downsides manifest as drarticlsly increased anxiety (I naturally have next to none), extremely poor sleep - I sleep but the sleep is so low quality it begins to feel like my brain barely works right, and the obvious one, the effects on your motivation. I naturally tend towards ADHD style dopamine chasing, and weed makes that about 100x worse. Instead of getting my work done, I will procrastinate with any number of cheap dopamine hits such as video games, internet sleuthing, etc.

> At that point, you’re legitimately addicted

You can just stop. Really. Go take a long trip somewhere weed is illegal (eg. Japan) and throw out your stash on the way out the door. You will be fine, maybe a little irritable for a couple days, but the trip will distract you and it'll be indistinguishable from typical jet lag symptoms. There is no biological dependence, unlike with most legal drugs such as alcohol, tobacco, benzos...

So this part is not true at all. When I was at my worst, I remember staying somewhere I couldn’t smoke, and I was sweating terribly all night several nights. This is known and documented.

Still sounds nothing nearly as bad as the withdrawal from alcohol, benzos, opioids, tobacco. In the case of the first two withdrawal symptoms can actually kill you.

After smoking weed for over 50 years, I would definitely say I am not addicted.

When I travel internationally, often for periods of over a month, I don't use any cannabis at all.

During these times I experience no withdrawal symptoms or craving.

I abstained for over a year during a number of periods during those 50 years, due to specific job requirements and other situations where using weed would be viewed detrimentally.

If anything, I would say cannabis is one of the least "addictive" substances that create a euphoric experience.

Please remember the old adage: gateways work for both getting you out of, as well as into, other situations. I would say that cannabis would be a great substance to use daily for helping people abstain from more harmful substances.

In the US we have the ass-hat social acceptance of: Alcohol, tobacco and firearms, like the little baby jesus intended.

All three of which are VASTLY more dangerous and deadly than cannabis.

A more direct link to the article, which doesn't require "Are you a bot" authentication, or javascript:

https://news.cuanschutz.edu/news-stories/study-finds-cannabi...

> Anthropologists in the future will be studying the effects of drastically increased marijuana consumption on society for decades in the future.

This information is already readily available by studying the Rastafari in Jamaica. If there were serious negative impacts from daily consumption over a lifetime it would have been apparent in that cohort for decades.

My biggest complaint is the smell. I absolutely hate it. The smell is strong and spreads everywhere. Some people in our community smoke marijuana while walking their dogs. At the same time, my wife takes our newborn for a walk. It’s absolutely unacceptable.

Edit: down-voters do not allow me to dislike the smell. Hilarious! I'm at -2 now. Nice! I get it, i get it. I must love it.

Yeah, people need to switch to edibles as a courtesy

That's just smoking in public. It's an issue regardless of what's being smoked.

Not really. Regular cigarette smoke is less intense and dissipates pretty quickly outdoors. Marijuana smoke is much stronger, lingers longer, and carries farther, so it impacts everyone nearby a lot more.

It's fine to dislike the smell, but I find cigarette smoke far more unappealing. I grew up in a time where everyone seemed to smoke everywhere. Catching a waft of weed every once in awhile is much more preferable.

That wasn't the point. This isn't about personal preference or which smell someone finds more 'appealing'. The point is intensity and spread. Cannabis smoke is much stronger, lingers longer, and carries farther in open air than cigarette smoke, so it affects more people nearby regardless of anyone's taste.

fresh manure would likely not be up your alley, but some people find it home-like.

These people have a choice, whereas I don’t.

You've got choices. One of them would be https://www.draeger.com/en-us_us/Productfinder/Respiratory-P...

Do you propose that for my wife or our newborn? Why don't you smoke cannabis in it?

Uhm. I actually sorta do. With an older version of this: https://www.storz-bickel.com/en/volcanoclassic :-)

That aside, where I live my nearest neighbors are about half a mile away, and behind me is nothing but my forest as far as I can see(which isn't that much, because mountain ridges, but still ;-> ), and behind that national forest. When I descend into more densely populated areas, I'm not trailing clouds of purple haze behind me. Be it for reasons of preferred soberness while doing business, shopping, not driving under the influence, whatever.

At the same time I'm feeling undisturbed by most of the stuff, except sometimes for matters of taste. Thinking something like "Ugh! I'd never smoke that crap."

I'm sure there are places where you'd be less disturbed by stuff like that.

Maybe Park City, UT?

Yea, I should sell my house, move my kids to a different school, find another job and al that just because of some weed addict, right?

Many people do indeed do things like that. Show some flexibility.

Many people do not smoke weed.

This is not a democracy.

Honest question, is this a fact, or a personal observation?

It is a fact.

It's not nearly as ubiquitous as car exhaust fumes/tyre wear pollution which I find to be a lot more objectionable as it's far more dangerous to us.

Classic whataboutism. The existence of problem A doesn’t cancel out problem B. Car exhaust being harmful doesn’t suddenly make strong marijuana smoke in public acceptable, especially around kids.

I don't think it's whataboutism to point out the far bigger problem. There's evidence to show that vehicle pollution leads to respiratory issues in children and certainly reduces life expectancy. Meanwhile cannabis smoke has not been shown to have anything near that level of toxicity and is certainly less common.

It hardly makes any sense to focus on the far smaller issue that doesn't seem to cause any issues apart from pearl clutching.

The problems can and do co-exist. The list is endless and that's why it's whataboutism.

I disagree as the air quality issue is dominated by vehicle pollution. The smell of cannabis in open areas is hardly even worth discussing as it's such a minor issue. Putting effort into addressing a minor issue when there's life threatening air pollution issues would be completely inappropriate and misguided.

Whataboutism would be more like comparing cannabis odour to people who fart in lifts.

You're arguing a point I didn't make. I didn't bring up air quality or pollution policy at all. I brought up a very specific, lived experience: my wife walking our newborn and being exposed to a strong, pervasive cannabis smell in our own neighborhood.

These two issues can coexist, but they're in completely different universes. Long-term air quality and vehicle pollution are systemic public-health problems. This is about basic courtesy and reasonable behavior in shared public spaces, especially around infants. One does not negate or diminish the other.

I could make the point that pollution by vehicles is also about basic courtesy and reasonable behaviour in shared public spaces, but it has become so normalised that I don't think you'll be convinced.

However, I do agree that people should be more wary around children and not subject them to second-hand smoke. The problem is that cannabis has such a strong smell that the smell is noticeable even when the amount of smoke exposure is likely not measurable.

We are finally on the same page.

I can't stand perfume. I absolutely hate it. The smell is strong and spreads everywhere. Some people in our community wear perfume while indoors. At the same time, my wife takes our newborn shopping. It’s absolutely unacceptable.

Smell preference is NOT the issue. Forced exposure is. You can walk away from perfume. You can't walk away from a cloud that follows you down the street.

The hardest part about the conversation with regards to the smell of weed is how quickly you can become noseblind to it.

I don't smoke weed but I had a roommate in college that smoked in the apartment 24/hours a day. The first week was unbearable. I could barely breath, my clothes reeked of weed, even my books reeked of it. But, after that first week, I didn't even notice the smell. Yeah, when he lit up I'd notice it for a second but nothing more than that.

Enough time has passed that I'm no longer noseblind to it but I wish I still were. I can smell it when the car ahead of me is smoking, I can smell it when the person on the other side of the bar recently smoked, hell, I can smell it in my car as soon as I start to approach my neighboring state where it's legal. At my last house I was tearing my hair out trying to catch the skunk or fox that made my yard reek every night during the summer. Of course, eventually I realized it coincided with my neighbors college-aged kid coming home for summer break and smoking in their room.

Anyone that says that cigarette smoke, perfume, car exhaust, people's breath in general, smell to any degree that weed does to non-smokers is incredulous. Just because you smoke and you don't recognize it, doesn't mean that everyone around you can't.

is smoking it the only way you get these benefits?

Surely edibles work just as well?

I’ve noticed it California since legalization use has skyrocketed and everyday intelligence seems to have gone through the floor. Similar to if we as a society started day drinking regularly.

I see people smoke all day all the time now and while driving and it clearly affects their judgement. I don’t know why legalization lead to “no moderation at all” and “I smoke at work”

Correlation does not imply causation. Society has bigger problems(probably).

Net contributor along with phones and agitation of modern life.

I've certainly noticed people acting as if they had less "everyday intelligence" where I live, where cannabis is not legal, and consumption has not soared.

I live in MN where it’s effectively been decriminalized for years. I believe 100% it has had extremely negative effects on the general populace. I see it in myself and all of my Gen Z/millennial friends that smoke regularly. The amount of money I’ve wasted alone on weed is frankly disgusting, and it’s not looked down upon like it would be if I was at the liquor store every other day blowing my paychecks.

Agreed completely on the day drinking point. That’s actually what got me to quit initially years ago. I realized, would I be drinking right now before work? Hell no. So why am I okay with getting high?

I mean so is sugar, alchohol, synthetic opioids, ect. Pick your poison. Life is about trade-offs.

You don't actually have to pick any of them.

Your brain needs glucose. So some form of sugar is essential.

Your brain doesn't need to indulge in sugar to the point of becoming a poisonous vice. You can get more than a sufficient amount eating readily available whole foods.

It's a bit like suggesting we are all addicted to water. Sure, enough of it will kill you, but that's not exactly helpful pedantry.

It depends. Not enough water kills you too.

Sure but the article seem to be suggesting this is a free lunch.

Except no one is going to outright lie to you that alcohol is “medicine,” that it’s not addictive, and that it’s entirely healthy to consume.

But a glass of wine after dinner is good for your heart!

My grandmother used to insist that her nightly glass of gin was strictly medicinal.

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