We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]
static.germantechjobs.de
static.germantechjobs.de
- An "average" salary of around 65K / year
- This after (an average of) 5-6 rounds of interviews
- 6 months of "probation", with only 2 weeks of notice
- And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment)
Then after taxation 65K annually means around 3500/month in pocket. Then with the current prices - around 1200 goes in rent alone. Not a lot of room to spend after that. Then, prices keep going up and even a simple (new) car is around 20,000. Not to mention the stress / savings you have to keep since people can be let go anytime. To top it, there is a ceiling in Germany - unless you are extra-ordinary forget making above 100K ever even after 25 years of experience.
IT / software dev is a "barely survivable" kind of job in Germany right (sadly) now. I do not recommend it to kids in school/uni anymore (again unfortunately).
These fucking Tarifvertraege have kept salaries from growing, too. The people would have pushed a long time ago but the truth is masked well enough.
Those who don't believe the shit, earn more. It is sad and the change and progress happens elsewhere. Enjoy one or two decades of German companies looking like they still matter. Nobody will account for the reasons later on. It's a shame.
And an average of 65k to the average person is gooood.
80k€+ isn't a high salary for job in a Tarifunternehmen if you stay with it for 5+ years.
Many of my colleagues cracked 100k€ this year without being AT and having crazy high position ratings.
And for each of those guys there's 2 people working for 48k and happy about it. They've been at the same shop for 15 years, in a team of the only 3 people doing software in the entire company. Probably somewhere a bit rural, and/or north of Frankfurt.
IGM is not the default.
Germany is the biggest cuck country in the world.
Finance can be (much) better, but feels like far fewer jobs, especially outside Frankfurt. I'm not sure finding a high paying finance jobs is easier than finding a software job at the German office of an American firm (which pay similarly well).
> I suppose factory workers cannot be let go as easily.
It's important to look at comparable companies. If you're a SE at a company with many factory workers, firing the SE is usually equally as difficult as firing the factory worker. They usually have the same protections and are in the same union. Software shops just tend to be smaller and those have lower job security.
There's a reason why some European countries loosed up to 30% of their population to America-bound emigration.
Consider also that if you're a German, your own country hates you and your very existence. The US doesn't have anything against Germans.
Loose your job right now and you wont see this 100k+ for a veryyyyy looooong time. People are taking cuts of 50% just to get any employment.
You mean the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93European_Union_F...? What industry are these “thousands of jobs” in exactly?
Canada, where immigrants came in under various immigration programs? As far as I know Canada and India don't have a trade agreement comparable to the one India has no with the EU. Hopefully one day. Apples to Oranges comparison though I think.
(I'm aware of companies abusing the LMIA system and I'm not saying that this or that level of immigration is sustainable)
For this, you get proper health and unemployment insurance, usually 30 days of paid vacation, up to 6 weeks of sick leave with full salary, up to 10 days to take care of sick children with full salary, paternal leave, the right to work part-time if desired, and so on. I don't know where you get the "people can be let go anytime" have from, because Germany is pretty famous for its "Kündigungsschutz" and it's very hard to let people go because of performance issues alone, which is why things like stack ranking and performance improvement plans pretty much do not exist here.
I can understand if young people without kids do not care about these things and just want the money. However, once you get older, you'll see the advantages.
"Shrinking the org" is a valid reason.
Average is 62.4k.
Talk to Arbeitsamt, hiring in Germany is a huge risk as soon as your company is 10+ people. By the way, the two weeks notice goes both ways. There’s a risk on both sides.
> - And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment)
Everyone is a Doktor there so your investment is most likely worthless. You did your reps at the Uni, profs instilled into you that you’re crème de la crème, but can you do the job, or are you just good at following orders.
I don't know any half-serious company posting ads there. And I'm not even talking about top tier or second tier tech companies, just tech adjacent employers paying market average.
Same with recruiting agencies matching people with startups. There was talent.io (not sure if it went under or re-branded) sharing ridiculous salary reports.
I'm all for transparency, but if your customer portfolio is literally paying bottom quartile salaries, I don't think this helps anyone.
Keep your golden geese well fed or they will find someone else (or another country) that will.
Why? Have a look at all the Tarifunternehmen salaries. 80k-90k€ is pretty much a standard salary you can reach after 5 years (with maybe changing your position once within the same company).
Feels like their dataset has significant sampling gap in some very big industries here.
I never paid 42% my entire engineer life.
Like: If you have a lockable, separate office and work (almost) exclusively from home, you can basically deduct the entire room for tax purposes (rent + electricity + heating + insurance + etc).
That can make a huge chunk.
Even an additional single sofa/couch can crush this plan.
And: If you say the room is worth 500€, you dont get back this 500€ with yearly tax declaration - you only get this amount deducted from total income, rising your after-tax income a little bit. In fact, with this solution you loose a room PLUS some money - rather rent out the room 1 week per AirBnB and pocket this in cash and you are fine.
Source: I was once hit by them with these rules.
€80k is $94k is £69k. Takehome is 60% Germany, 73% UK, 75% US
If Germany taxed at US rates at €65k it would be an extra €867 a month, "Not qualitatively different"
When US IT jobs are on twice the salary ($150-200k or €130-160k) that's a hell of a lot bigger impact than the tax.
US https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator
UK https://listentotaxman.com/
Germany https://www.how-to-germany.com/income-tax-calculator/
Put 800 euro a month into an investment account and you’re a millionaire by age 50.
Personally I noticed an exodus of Americans towards Europe. IT may as well be considered an intellectual immigration flux.
The critical point is that no one has the puta idea of how to use AI to create jobs, so to smooth and balance the shift/layoffs. Time to be creative on it or else we will see employees destroying the machines again like they did in the beginning of the industrial revolution followed by an economical depression.
https://germantechjobs.de/en/hub/reports/it-job-market-repor...
> How much do AI tools improve your productivity at work?
there is no 0-10% range