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202508042147

As a European, I am glad that this is finally discussed in the open! I have made multiple comments in the last weeks that one of the most important things, for me, is an alternative to the Visa/Mastercard duopoly. And yes, I can use an app to pay, but whenever I rent a car or purchase something online, I still use one of these two American companies. Why isn't the European Commission mandating these app payments in different EU countries to connect with each other? Wouldn't that go faster than the digital euro, that is set to come no earlier than 2029?

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It just plainly makes sense for central bank to offer a digital payments solution. Right now if I want to pay for something without 3rd party taking a cut is to mail the money in an envelope as if EU Central Bank denies existence of digital economy.

they're working on it, but it'll take time: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.ht...

>>As a European, I am glad that this is finally discussed in the open! I have made multiple comments in the last weeks that one of the most important things, for me, is an alternative to the Visa/Mastercard duopoly.

The main reason we don't have an alternative to Visa/Mastercard duopoly is protectionism of EU countries. There are local alternatives that do pretty well (BLIK in Poland, Revolut Pay in countries where it's popular) but entering more markets is like pulling teeth because EU throws regulatory obstacles at every step.

>> Why isn't the European Commission mandating these app payments in different EU countries to connect with each other? Wouldn't that go faster than the digital euro, that is set to come no earlier than 2029?

It would but then their non-local alternative could win which they really don't want to happen.

> The main reason we don't have an alternative to Visa/Mastercard duopoly is protectionism of EU countries. There are local alternatives that do pretty well (BLIK in Poland, Revolut Pay in countries where it's popular) but entering more markets is like pulling teeth because EU throws regulatory obstacles at every step.

That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense? How did Visa & Mastercard manage to go through the "protectionism of EU countries" then?

> How did Visa & Mastercard manage...

I'd bet a combination of:

- Got through before the red tape ramparts were nearly as thick as today

- Ungentle arm-twisting by the US Gov't... at Visa & Mastercard's behest

- Amply greased palms... which can't be traced to Visa or Mastercard. At least not in any jurisdiction which would do anything about it.

You forgot the part where there is a bootstrap problem for any fintech.

You need the appropriate license to make money, but you can only get that license if you already have enough money.

On top of that is a requirement that basically demands that you have employees in charge that have worked and gained job experience at the established businesses.

This is good for stability, but it also means that innovation gets nibbed in the bud.

???

Neither my comment, nor the prior one, had anything to do with fintech.

Concerning "innovation" in financial systems, done by relative outsiders, with little experience or incentive to keep the system stable: Given the track record, I'd argue that such innovations should either be outright banned, or limited to some tiny percentage of the relevant financial market. The world does not need more FTX's.

> because EU throws regulatory obstacles at every step.

No, the gatekeeping is done by local banks and governments to protect their oligopolies/cartels.

There are many instant-pay apps across Europe and they are intentionally not interoperable outside of local markets. Each local banking oligopoly is trying to fence off competition. The main fear is from smaller neo-banks.

>>No, the gatekeeping is done by local banks and governments to protect their oligopolies/cartels.

If you are pointing the distinction between gatekeeping at the EU level and country level I am not contesting that. It's clear though that the gatekeeping is the problem here (and in many other industries in EU).

How dare you point that out on a discussion about gatekeeping being treated like a good thing.

Take a look here: https://wero-wallet.eu/

Looking forward having this in the country where I live and in the countries I mostly travel to! Well, actually all over EU.

What is unclear to me atm, is it possible to rent a car using wero? Also, can I pay online with it?

It's on the roadmap. There are online shops that accept Wero already https://wero-wallet.eu/e-m-commerce

Well, there is good news on that front [1]. It seems it's being planned.

[1] https://thepaypers.com/payments/news/eu-considers-developing...

We have UPI in India and it's pretty Robust.

My brother actually was part of deal in talks to have UPI pilots as a project within London as a project within his college and I remember him talking about how UPI (India) is in talks with other European countries too.

With the mother of all deals recently signed between EU and India. I sincerely hope that UPI can have access within EU markets too.

If you ever come to India, you can witness the astronomical rise of UPI. From street vendors to literally everybody now has UPI and it has 0 fees and is really great/one of the best.

As for our brazillian friends, I have heard that pix is great too and I have respect to pix as well plus its open source as well. Both Pix and UPI are really great.

Yes, there are local alternatives like Pix here as well, but they only work in the same country. I need something that works across EU countries, like wero. I also need something that works on every site when I buy online and I can also use it when renting a car. So a real Visa/Mastercard alternative.

Using card is much much easier and better UX.

Europe almost had in once ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirecard

> yes, I can use an app to pay

So you move the power from two American companies (Visa and Mastercard) to two American companies (Apple and Google)? What's that supposed to solve?

Also, fuck apps. I had to set up an app for my mother to recharge her new hybrid car and I am not joking: at one point I had to create a log in for her and was greeted by a screen with two options: Log In (blue button, white text), and Log In (white button, blue text). I would rather use cash than an app (and I'm in Belgium, carrying around cash is like herding sheep through coyote territory).

> So you move the power from two American companies (Visa and Mastercard) to two American companies (Apple and Google)? What's that supposed to solve?

Unsure what you mean, but for context I use an app developed by a consortium of local banks and it works by scanning a QR code. Indeed, I use an Android phone but my next one will be a de-googled one like a Fairphone with /e/OS. Hopefully the same app will work there...

> Hopefully the same app will work there...

That's the problem: currently many of those banking apps in the EU require having a phone with Google Play services and other "security" stuff that makes you reliant on American companies, like the post you're replying to claims.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, I am confident that those banking apps will (eventually) work without the likes of Google Play Services. Additionally, what i really want is an alternative to Visa/Mastercard, meaning I can use it for renting a car or paying online.

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