Best Gas Masks
theverge.com
theverge.com
Just get the one that everyone else does: NIOSH TC-84A-0510 with protection against "Solid Particles, Organic Vapors, Acid Gases, Ammonia, Formaldehyde, Methylamine". Every lab buys this filter, or its manufacturer equivalent, for dealing with god-knows-what, because this one will handle just about anything.
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/339742O/3m-full-facepiec...
> Also NIOSH-approved with 3MTM Canister CP3N for use against CS, CN and as a P100 filter (TC-14G-0251) in riot conditions, including those with teargas (non-CBRN).
> Durable enough to survive a scuffle with a right-wing extremist, even if the bones of your hand do not
[1] https://www.theverge.com/policy/859055/minneapolis-renee-goo...
Because? I'll be honest, haven't read much from The Verge so don't know much how it used to be/is now, but given they seemingly post articles about how to resist government tyranny, doesn't that make them a good website in general?
But I'm guessing you still have somewhat free media (?) and also could look at what international news channels report from the US, and they're not painting a picture of "enforcing immigration laws", just the amount of added vote restrictions that been going on should give you a heads up where it's about to go, and that the president is flirting with that the administration should actually be the ones responsible for the elections.
If you don't see it at this point, I'm afraid you might be blind.
hell by that metric basically noone who ever wrote something publicly of any substance is qualified
also ever visited twitter? the stuff she wrote is pretty tame even by 2022 cancel culture standards
ETA: in case it's unclear - this is not me trying to platform OP's bullshit in good faith, this is me calling OP's bluff. I don't think ne can articulate an actual problem that isn't self-defeating, which is why ne retreated to sarcastic implication rather than outright accusation.
I don't think I was a "bad person" at that age, but I certainly know that I said some cringy, stupid stuff that I certainly don't stand by anymore.
Quite frankly, I think it is far more concerning if a person can't identify anything that they have changed their mind on. We should celebrate when people change for the better instead of attacking them for having been bad in the past.
So apparently they were once a 'gadget site'
it’s pretty rich to both decry media literacy issues in sibling comments while completely elastically using the word “listicle”
Were I to recommend anybody join anti-LE riots (which I categorically do not, in this case), and if I even remotely cared about the wellbeing of my readers (which the author categorically does not, in this case), I would touch on those types of details instead of stringing quasi-random affiliate links together using sob stories, self-congratulations and agitprop.
if you’ll indulge me, i’m excited to hear how you have “categorically” decided the author’s intentions
one nit: surely you, of all hacker news commenters, have the extraordinary media literacy to know that the journos themselves do not add the affiliate links or pocket the affiliate link search arbitrage
my job here is done, but i’m here if you need any more help
Bonus points if someone actually puts some money towards a human journalist by just treating it as an affiliate listicle.
Personally I prefer the ones that make it clear where they stand as opposed to subtly influencing you while masquerading as "neutral".
It may comfort you to imagine the NYT's editorial stance as the last thing holding back a revolution, but I guarantee that is not the case. That may change some wannabe liberal elites to wannabe revolutionaries, but the elites who you actually want to change will get their news someplace else.
I mostly agree with you, I also read zero hedge, al jazeera and other media whose stance I don't broadly agree with.
To me NYT is actually pretty conservative, but YMMV
https://pekesafety.com/blogs/news/a-respirator-that-works-wi...
In other words, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Barring a perfect option that nobody has ever provided in these conversations, buy the full face mask that everyone is recommending. We're not talking about nerve agent or biologicals here. It's still better to take only 10% of a hit than a full hit.
3M 6000 full-face masks: https://www.mcmaster.com/5541T605/
The image shows just a particulate filter, but the listing actually includes 3M bayonet-style cartridges for chemical exposure.
If I'm going to take a chance I'd prefer to support a small company. Amazon is big, but I find most things they sell I can find a small company that sells the same for a similar price and they know their product and so will direct me to what works well.
https://www.zoro.com/3m-full-facepiece-reusable-respirator-w...
You wouldn’t want to be breathing anything enriched with oxygen in a fire.
Give it a try and see what happens? Get your friends and colleagues with you too! In Europe (at least France and Spain) we have firefighters participating in protests, some of them not so non-violent, and there been clashes between firefighters and police (so unexpected) in the past, most recently just ~a week ago: https://www.albawaba.com/news/firefighter-protest-lille-esca....
I guess there is many reasons AFAB isn't an acronym people usually spread, can't think of any time firefighters generally been against the people.
:)
For myself, it’s the feeling of: thank fuck; the grownups have arrived. shoulders lower, everyone takes a deep breath
ouch. Must be weird living where you live.
Conflicting football ultras is basically the only case where this doesn't happen.
(I've never been near a tear gas kind of event, but I did witness the Met Police deploy "kettling" for the first time in May 2001, close enough that if I'd not paid attention to the police lines forming up I would have been imprisoned uncomfortably for eight hours.)
If they start rolling through random neighborhoods and gassing people in their homes like they did in Minneapolis, I’d like to be prepared.
I have no personal experience with Mira; I’ve been looking for a respirator myself because I live in Portland.
since the feds are using projectiles on random persons, something that is shatter resistant / impact tested for eye protection should be prioritized. pair with some 60926 filters and you should be good to keep resisting.
More random tidbits: You'd semi-obviously want a sacrificial wrap over the mask if you're painting, as well as few spare cartridges. There are particulate filters that are just regular paper masks, organic vapor cans for painting, and couple of acid cans for toxic gases. DYOR and use the right one for the task. Particulate filters go on top of gas cans on the iconic 3M 6000 series masks; it's not integrated to the can. The cans also technically only last few hours after opening the package, so technically you should be replacing twice daily. They also can't protect against large amounts of toxic substances like videogame thick green vapors of alien weapons, only what's somewhat casually filtered. In e.g. inside an active volcano, go for full scuba or something that don't rely on filtering. The reason why some masks use pair of cans as opposed to one can, is just for easier breathing. The performance on paper is the same; you can seal off one port with something if you want. The improvement is maybe not negligible, but you get used to breathing through masks quickly anyway. The mini mask that covers mouth and nose inside a full face mask exists to help clear condensation by forcing you to breathe in fresh air around its front surface and force exhalation through the exhaust valve. Removing it will steam up the shield. The air drawn in is filtered, but exhaust is not; if the wearer is infected with something, the mask won't help stop the spread.
TL;DR: gas masks is its own mini rabbit hole.
Not everyone who wears eyeglasses, unless you're prepared to add another several hundred dollars for the lens holder and set of prescription lenses.
I do have the 3M 6800 full face respirator but almost never use it. The silicone 7xxx series is much more comfortable than the rubber 6xxx series, and the 750x silicone half mask is reasonably priced. Augment with comfortable googles as necessary (vented ones work for me since I'm painting, not rioting).
https://www.gvs.com/en/catalog/elipse-p3-respirator
This one is good for standard DIY duties that do not involve chemicals (ie cutting, grinding, sanding)
there is a quite readable guide you can get here: https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg53.pdf
For chemical resistance: https://www.gvs.com/en/catalog/elipse-a1p3-respirator
BUT you need to worry about mucus membranes (ie eyeballs can absorb some chemical). The A1 bit means that it'll protect against PPM that are less than 1000, (No I don't know what the PPM of teargas is.)
I guess but cannot assert that decent hardened safety goggles will help against gas in the eyes, but again you'll need to look at the standards for that. the all in one mask/face shields are a better bet.
Your local hardware store should carry this kind of stuff, especially if they do any kind of plastic solvent or fibreglass/epoxy stuff.
Full-face masks are so much more comfortable, so much clearer to see through than those stupid yellow sunglasses that get scratched up all the time, so much easier to put everything on, so much better in every aspect that you won't think twice about it anymore. You walk into the shop, grab the one thing, put it on, and get to work.
That would be the 3M™ Organic Vapor/Acid Gas Cartridge/Filter 60923 [0]. Replace after each exposure or 30 days after opening the sealed packaging for best results. A clean shave is important for a good air seal.
The absolute best protection would be a PAPR (powered air-purifying respirator) with a TR-6530N filter [1] installed. Something like the 3M Versaflo M-407SG[2] would fit the filter and provide impact resistance. It can be fitted with a Speedglas 9100XXi [3] (or 9100X/V) auto-darkening filter for protection against flashbangs.
This is an equivalent PAPR [3] with a better form factor which also includes ANSI Z87.1 rated impact-protection (helpful against projectiles) and auto-darkening lenses (helpful against flashbangs/pyrotechnics). It also still works fine even if you keep a beard. I believe this is part of the Optrel Helix product line, which advertises 14-hour battery life. However, the listing I linked does not come with organic vapor / acid-gas filtration. That requires a different form factor for the filter, the Optrel ABE1P Combination Filter [4] offers A1B1E1P certification (Protects against organic gases/vapors, inorganic gases, acid gases, and particulates)
As 'closewith added, "CBRN" or "NBC" masks are also a good option - they are rated for chemical/biological/radiation/nuclear contamination and are available as riot gear with good impact-resistance. Look for A2B2E2K2-P3 ratings / certification.
You could also look into something like the Joseph Leslie Dynamiks A3B3E3K3-rated Jumbo canister for 10000 ppm extended exposure. [5]
0: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/dc/v000075263/
1: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/cartridges/manufacturer-mo...
2: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1892506O/3m-versaflo-m-4...
3: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/speedglas-welding-helmets-us/spe...
3: https://www.mcmaster.com/9258n17/
4: https://optrel.us/product/upgradekit-combifilter-swiss-air-5...
5: https://www.josephlesliedynamiks.com/brochures/Gas_Filters.p...
My own experience is that fit is as/more important than filters, and who knows how well civvies will fit their CBRN gear. It's _oppressively_ uncomfortable!
With the prices for respirators going up (/me gestures at federal "government" attacking our own cities), if I wanted to save money I'd get a knock-off full face respirator from Amazon (or Ali if you're comfortable transiting the import blockade with this specific item), and then genuine cartridges (NOT from Amazon obviously, lol).
[0] for most things I do, I use the 2097 filters which are primarily particulate with just a small amount of activated charcoal for "nuisance vapors". This is all generally with half-face 7500 bodies.
For the beginning of Covid I modded my 7500 (half face) to remove the check valve flaps and seal up what would normally be the exhaust ports, making both inhale and exhale go through the 2297 filters. It was harder to breathe, more humid, and developed liquid water accumulation over longer periods.
I would think that if you did the same thing with a full face respirator, it would immediately fog up. If you look at the flow path on them, it's something like atmosphere -> filter -> top face portion -> mouth nose portion -> atmosphere, presumably to keep the part you need to see out of full of dry air.
"Have you got chronic sebhorric dermatitis, click this link to make it go away".
"You may be eligible for compensation if you bought a Volkswagen"
"Fight the corrupt fascist government, buy a gas mask here"
"Fight the corrupt socialist government, buy a year's supply of Iodine tablets"
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1948355O/combination-car...
40 hours of use or 30 days, whatever comes first, it says.
It's probably not what I would bet my life on, but I've used a bunch of these up doing wood finishing and cleaning. You swap them when you start to smell anything through the cartridges, because it's not actively handling organic vapors anymore. I think 30-40 hours of real exposure use is realistic.
I typically wipe down & pack masks with organic vapor cartridges into a ziplock bag filled with paper towels when I'm done for the day. This ziplock thing is just what I started doing after leaving it out on the counter and found the cartridges weren't effective the next day. This is entirely unscientific, but I think they last longer stored like this.
Also tear-gas canisters are very hot when fired, because tear gas is produced and released via a pyrotechnic reaction inside the canister, basically burning a dry chemical to produce the gas. I recommend wearing a heavy (7mil or 9mil) nitrile glove with your bunny suit and over that wearing leather welding gloves or heat-rated mechanics gloves if you expect to encounter tear gas canisters so you can pick them up and throw them back.
Also, be aware that the filter canisters on most masks are only good for about 45 minutes to 2 hours (depending on exposure levels) when used in an environment where you are actively being exposed to the chemicals you want to filter. You need additional replacement filters that are /sealed/ in their packaging to swap out to in the field. Good luck out there.
The kind of cartridge you need to withstand teargas is not an N95, as the top comment points out it's quite a bit more involved. The downside of that other than cost and duration of the filter is that you'll feel a lot more resistance on inhaling than you're used to. For some people the combination of something on their face and the feeling of restricted breathing is unbearable, and mid-tear gas attack is a terrible time to realize that.
Consider also that this becomes far more important if you're working hard, say running around or fighting. Anyone who has it in their head to give this a try should keep those factors in mind, as well as get a kit to properly fit-test because again... mid-attack is a terrible time to realize that your fit isn't up to snuff. Likewise with training to don and doff.
In a lot of ways the article feels like clickbait that's extremely self-aware, but not really concerned with the practical reality of what they're implying.
My DIY-perspective tip is that when you're getting to know the respirator, you can take the filter cartridges off and put your hands over the input ports to feel what fully restricted breathing feels like, make it a known sensation in case it ends up happening. Likewise you can cover the output port and breathe out to do a kind of rough fit test.
You can hold up a key card to cover each bayonet filter and it seals it perfectly for a quick test at any time.
Good tip, though! I'll have to try that next time I'm using the bayonets.
https://eyeglass.com/products/criss-optical-collection-mag-1...
What's the procedure for flagged articles become unflagged? Maybe do I need more karma or something before I can vouch for them?
Normally most users can vouch for flagged submissions. The fact that this is non-vouchable is interesting.
Automotive Painter shops use an actual filtered external fresh-air feed medical-grade pump, as it avoids whatever mystery compounds are in various paints and cleaners.
Don't cheap out on PPE, as 3M does make good quality filters. =3
The last time the US faced this level of organized political resistance against lawful federal authority, the Army and National Guard routinely used fixed bayonets to control segregationist protesters. The same technique would work today, but with modern rifles being significantly shorter and hence being less effective bayonet platforms, a dedicated spear might be the better option.
Such weapons, employed in a close-order formation, would be much less lethal than they might seem at first blush. Historical data from 18th and 19th century conflicts shows that, even in battles where bayonet charges happened, there was still an extremely low rate of actual bayonet casualties. Even trained and disciplined soldiers will break and rout rather than let themselves be stabbed with bayonets (or, presumably, spears).
What if the organizers have drilled it into their heads that they won't use real spears? "WHY DID YOU HAVE REAL BULLETS?!?!?"
I intentionally alternated between left wing / right wing events. These things aren't limited to one side, and they're somewhat frequent, if a bit cyclical.
Also I feel compelled to point out that "lawful authority" does not imply "authority acting lawfully". The difference is painfully demonstrated by the existence of a thread discussing the use of respirators in response to government jackboots suppressing lawful first amendment activity. The obvious alternative is to let the protests happen, per our Constitution.
If that was actually happening, I would be opposed to it. The only people suppressing lawful first amendment activity were Don Lemon and his friends invading a church, interrupting services, and blocking the exits as they screamed abuse at the parishioners.
Because to me, it looks like you're merely doing whataboutism to the latest spectacle your media bubble is showing you. That you add "If that was actually happening, I would be opposed to it" is most concerning as it indicates how far your cognitive dissonance is able to be stretched.
You say protestors, I say rioters and organized physical resistance to legitimate law enforcement. If you think that’s a “tall claim” you’re the one in a media bubble.
But realistically, instead of both sides hating each other to the point of perpetual violence, why not just have 2 or 3 countries in which we can all be happy? Trade and travel agreements are easy to establish by treaty. It doesn't have to be this way.
The time to split the country was when the Confederacy seceded. We should have just let them go, but that would have meant ignoring a human-rights atrocity, and in any case it would have resulted in a shared border with a belligerent enemy nation and ultimately with a failed state. It's definitely too late now.
The idea is still just as intermingled with fundamental human rights, plus the sides are more deeply geographically intermingled than in the 1860s, largely because the victors decided not to really root out the evil they had defeated an instead allowed it to metastasize. There may be no peaceful resolution; there is certainly no possibility of a peaceful divorce.
It is the historical task of our species to abolish slavery. In every generation we've got to reeducate ourselves about its evils.
Still an amazing story, props to the Verge. But could've been an all time great.
> 3M does not provide product information on which filters are best for government repression
Great writing.
>When I eventually sat down to write my article about the Portland protests, I had a strange kind of epiphany, if it can even be called that. Out in the real world, when drowning in tear gas and adrenaline
Bad writing.
This is a genius product review right now for all the reasons everyone else thinks it is. I didn't need to read a single one of the authors personal experiences to understand the underlying message, or read ~100 words about their internal struggles to classify Portland as a riot versus a protest. The lack of brevity and conciseness seriously undercuts the absolute geniusness of maliciously compliant product reviews about gas masks in our current political climate.
My comment is about the art of subtlety. Again, this is an amazing article, but it's literally just been flagged by HN because it waxes poetic about politics instead of allowing all of that to be there without saying it. We can all read between the lines.
The product review, while it does stand on its own, is not the main purpose.
The point is to render absurd the incredulous comments from Pam Bondi, "How did these people go out and get gas masks?" Bondi did not ask this question to receive an answer, "oh, they go to Home Depot and get model X-54-Whatever." The point of her question was to cast aspersion on the protestors, to attempt to delegitimize their grievances by painting them as paid, professional agitators. It's the sort of "I'm just sayin'" bullshit rhetoric we've all had to deal with from racist uncles at Thanksgiving for the last 25 years.
Jeong's article works by failing to engage Bondi's comments on Bondi's grounds. Jeong's use of product review as a structure for her article is a conceit that treats Bondi's comments as a legitimate request for product reviews, side-stepping the concept that only paid professionals could ever know anything about gas masks, because information on the Internet is and wants to be free.