We can’t send mail farther than 500 miles (2002)
web.mit.edu
web.mit.edu
Suddenly one winter morning, the PC wouldn't boot. I had to run to a meeting. When I got back, I turned the PC off and on again and everything was fine. The next morning, the same thing happened. The third day, I didn't have a meeting. I turned it off and back on, still no boot. I'd gotten in late, so I just turned it off and took an early lunch. When I got back, it still wouldn't boot. But I had a meeting, so I ran to that, leaving the computer on. When I got back, it booted fine.
The next morning, same thing. I decided to look inside, not having any idea what might cause such symptoms. As I took the shell off, a tiny mouse came out, jump off my desk, and ran across my lap before jumping on the floor and scurrying out of sight. From inside the computer came the smell of mouse urine. Apparently he'd been crawling in through the open drive bay to keep warm every night, and urinating while he was in there. Once the computer had been on for a while, the heat and airflow would dry it out enough to eliminate whatever electrical short was keeping it from booting. I went to the store and bought an empty drive sled to put in the drive bay whenever I took my drive out, and the problem never came back. I felt lucky that the liquid didn't cause permanent damage.
wish modern stores optimized for customer convenience instead of seeing most shelves along the way to the usual
Both, optimizing for ease of shopping and optimizing for stringing the customer along as long as possible rely on the same purchase data - they just use diametrically opposite metrics for evaluation.
Another classic is the "Frog on Keyboard error". Software developers have to be prepared for everything...
https://thedailywtf.com/articles/Classic-WTF-Cursed-and-ReCu...
Primary purpose was to lock the keyboard so when the cat walked all over it, it would not disconnect.
If this would have caught on we might have called bugs mice
The history section of the Wikipedia entry for "bug" [1] suggests it predates computers by decades.
Moths are, technically [0], not bugs.
Hopper's note didn't suggest the word was new, but was funny exactly because it was not.
It's almost raw data -- exactly what you would wish for. By lecturing people that "email does not work that way", next time you either get no data at all because people don't even try, or no data because people hide it thinking email doesn't work that way, or a misguided conclusion when a layman tries to make a better guess at the cause of the problem.
and:
(3) try to understand why they are communicating differently to an LLM. Immediate replies? Different feelings knowing they don't talk to a human? Genuinely better help? Not getting treated as stupid?
All or none of these may be true, but if it's consistent behaviour then there is a reason for it.
When I was a Junior I asked an honest question to the senior I was working with at the time, great dude, I basically asked him because everyone joked about the "works on my machine" crowd, so I said, so what the heck do I do if it only works on my machine? He said you have to figure out what's different. It sounds obvious or simple, but if you go with that mindset, when someone's stuck in the "it works on my machine idk why" sure enough I ask "what is DIFFERENT from your machine and this one?" and it almost always leads to the right answers. It triggers something in our brains. I usually follow up whats different with "what was the last change?" in the case of a production issue.
2023 (1164 points, 198 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37576633
2020 (1034 points, 136 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23775404
2015 (915 points, 140 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9338708
Btw for those wondering about reposts: reposts on HN are just fine after a year or so (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html), and reposts of classics every now and then are good because it's important for new users to learn the classics!
Can an email go 500 miles in 2025? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44466030 - July 2025 (122 comments)
Can’t send email more than 500 miles (2002) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37576633 - Sept 2023 (198 comments)
The case of the 500-mile email (2002) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29213064 - Nov 2021 (93 comments)
We can't send email more than 500 miles (2002) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23775404 - July 2020 (135 comments)
500 miles (2002) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18675375 - Dec 2018 (32 comments)
We can't send mail more than 500 miles - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17602158 - July 2018 (1 comment)
The case of the 500-mile email (2002) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14676835 - July 2017 (56 comments)
Every time we lift a pallet from the shipping room, the server times out (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13347058 - Jan 2017 (82 comments)
The case of the 500-mile email - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10305377 - Sept 2015 (1 comment)
The 500-mile email (2002) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9338708 - April 2015 (139 comments)
The case of the 500-mile email - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2701063 - June 2011 (18 comments)
The case of the 500-mile email - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1293652 - April 2010 (24 comments)
The case of the 500-mile email - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=385068 - Dec 2008 (28 comments)
The case of the 500-mile email - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=123489 - Feb 2008 (7 comments)
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1053/
It would be nice if HN would simply "float" to the front page the classics, a year or two after their submission. That would avoid duplication (specially of comments!), and allow people in the lucky 10,000 group know about it.
We can then poke some fun at what AI did, what went wrong, and our incredibly illogical "debug" of AI
I turned it off and went to bed. Maybe I'll troubleshoot it today. But I'd love to understand what could have happened. The closest thing I know of is the Janet Jackson video that could crash hard drives [0]. In this case the sound was playing on a different device (my TV) so I don't think it's the same explanation.
For extra weirdness, the episode was Black Mirror S7E01. Exactly the kind of thing the creators would like to build into a Black Mirror episode.
[0] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20220816-00/?p=10...
In the case of the latter my first thought would be thermals. Different video codecs have significantly different decoding costs, and may also stress different parts of your system. You could check for that by playing that same video but not starting at the beginning and see if it's the same duration. Or jump to just before it dies and see if it plays through.
If by "downloaded" you mean The High Seas, those who provision the high seas are often on the cutting edge of using codecs with every last feature turned on to make the videos smaller to squeeze every last bit out of the encodings that they can, which can make them unusually expensive to decode. Or so I've heard.
- not always the same frame. The first three failures were within seconds of each other, possibly the same frame. I tried again the next night and it got through that part of the video, but crashed a minute later - I was able to play the video using a different app (Ubuntu's built-in Videos app from an old Ubuntu release, maybe 20.04)
It's also possible that something in a particular frame is triggering a bug in your driver and crashing that way. In that case, your best bet might be to transcode the video to a different codec or something.
Maybe your particular video download is from an entirely trustworthy source, but it's not unheard of that untrustworthy folks will modify a file with the intent of causing this to happen.
0: https://www.thesr71blackbird.com/Aircraft/Stories/sr-71-blac...
[1] https://archive.org/details/5626281-Clifford-Stoll-Communica...
Pity, as the constant handwaving in the answers makes the entire thing seem made up.
I'm not at all implying the story was fake; just this particular thing feels weird.
Just to be the man/woman/non-binary who sends mail 500 miles to your front door?
You had me at EHL0.
You just reminded me of my time working at Sendmail, where I often had to telnet to port 25 of some machine, and pretend to be a mail server sending email.
I used to be able to send all the commands without having to look them up. Not sure I could still do that today.
EHLO example.com
MAIL FROM:<foo@example.com>
RCPT TO:<bar@example.com>
DATA
Subject: Hello, World
I have crawled through the depths of hell to deliver unto you this message.
.
What made me stumble recently was having to talk LMTP to fix a mailman setup. Cheeky fuckers changed EHLO into LHLO for LMTP. (To avoid any mixups between the protocols, which is fair.)
Yeah I know the protocol and can do that manual, because I had to debug it often enough.
I know it's a way to specify that the conversion is absolute rather than relative, but qalculate just asks you about it the first time you convert, and since converting oven and outside temperatures is most of what I do, I don't havr to bother with remembering a different syntax.
Also qalculate is an awesome piece of software in general, so if you're excited by units you should check it out!
Favorite feature: you can type in any equation, writing 'x' for an unknown quantity, and it will solve for x. This comes in handy to avoid having to engage brain even for simple calculations. How many pixels per mm is 96 DPI? Just type 96/inch = x/mm. Sure you could rearrange it yourself but why bother?
You have: 1 mile You want: kilometers * 1.609344 / 0.62137119
You have: 1 unit You want: 1.609344 units * 0.62137119 / 1.609344
Turned out be an old building with loose floorboard. The force of standing up was just enough to short out a failing power supply.
Our email systems are mostly mediated by giant hyper-scale companies (Microsoft, Google etc). The location of mail servers being where the recipient is seems quaint (and wonderfully decentralised).
And even if we do manage our own servers they are automated, and apps often containerised. Nobody ends up with older MTA due to an OS upgrade.
Remember reading this like 20 years ago nice to see it again.
https://users.cs.utah.edu/~elb/folklore/mel.html
Mel was for sure on another level:
It was a long time before I understood that remark. Since Mel knew the numerical value of every operation code, and assigned his own drum addresses, every instruction he wrote could also be considered a numerical constant. He could pick up an earlier "add" instruction, say, and multiply by it, if it had the right numeric value. His code was not easy for someone else to modify.
And here we are almost 25 years later.
Bless OP for sharing this gem today. I needed the laughter.
This is gold.
But what was the actual timeout and distance?
Presumably 60-70% VF of PVC coated copper?
So a 5ms timeout would be a 500mile run?
Thanks for sharing the link.
The ultimate explanation that he just pinged known distances to calculate the time and distance relation is actually brilliant I'm not sure it would have occured to me particularly quickly to just experiment.