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chasil

Nonviolent crowd control does not seem to be a core competence of these federal forces.

They should augment deployed enforcement with those who have such expertise.

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> Nonviolent crowd control does not seem to be a core competence of these federal forces.

Why is crowd control even needed?

ICE existed for many, many years before now, and them doing their job never caused crowds previously (under both R and D administrations), so what (rhetorically) changed?

Oh this is easy: a gigantic funding increase is being used to massively expand workforce with minimal training, then that workforce is being deployed with an ambiguous mission and apparent arrest quotas, while also being told they’re immune from any criminal liability for their actions (they’re not), including internal memos telling them they’re allowed to enter private homes without judicial warrants (they’re not), and a SCOTUS decision that is being represented to mean that racial profiling is legal now (it's not)

Deploying literal hordes of poorly trained, well-armed men onto American streets with explicit guidance that runs directly contrary to the US Constitution's plain text can, will, and SHOULD attract crowds in opposition.

Hope that helps!

It's completely intentional choice by the Miller/Noem wing of the admin to create media drama and "own the libs", overriding the Homan wing which was pushing for easy wins rounding up known criminal offenders in custody / in red states / etc.

Didn't ICE and predecessor organizations do workplace raids? Maybe that's not as big of a crowd, but it's still a crowd. I think they would tend to do workplace raids in concert with the FBI.

There's a big difference between seeing an immigration raid where you know whoever gets picked up is going to have access to a lawyer, be subject to proper due process, and at worst be sent back to their home country. We knew - or at least believed - that if they detained someone who was a citizen, that person would be released.

Now, when we see ICE grabbing someone, we know that person probably won't have access to legal representation even if they are here legally, even if they're a citizen. We know they might be sent to a concentration camp in a foreign country they aren't from, and we know they might even get murdered in the street. It's a very different dynamic.

Because ICE has gone way beyond arresting illegals. In Boston, for example, they stopped a naturalization ceremony literally minutes before people were to become citizens. Do you support that?

https://www.wcvb.com/article/21-citizenship-oaths-canceled-f...

Bigotry, mostly. It's usually bigotry.

Well they didn’t wear masks and grab people off the street and shoved them into unmarked vans under previous administrations.

They were co-opted to function as Trump's death squads to kill dissidents

I think it changed when I saw they were sending people to (apparently rape/torture) prisons in El Salvador with no due process.

Exactly. There should be no crowd control, because they shouldn't be interacting with the American public except as fellow citizens. If someone commits a crime against them, they can turn the details over to the local police for enforcement of assault, etc.

At this point after how they've been operating, they shouldn't even be allowed to carry weapons. No guns, no grenades, no pepper spray, no masks to escape accountability. These are supposed to be public servants, they should be accountable to the public. If someone they're trying to apprehend reacts violently then they can escalate the situation to the local police or maybe the FBI after the federal agencies have done the work of regaining the public trust.

Before now, ICE was primarily paperwork police. Border patrol and occasional visits to round up undocumented immigrants at factories still existed, but the vast majority of their job was related to like customs and visa forms. It's like hiring 10x the postal workers and giving them guns and "qualified immunity" -- you're going to get some new problems.

Who? They are complaining that sanctuary cities' local police are not cooperating. Who else are you suggesting has the necessary expertise?

Perhaps if they cannot carry out their goals without hurting people, the answer is "take a step back" and not "hurt people."

This is beyond naive at this point. The objective is to hurt people. Republican voters have repeatedly explicitly asked for it. There's a reason they flocked to Trump. Cruelty is the point. It's astounding the number of people still so credulous wrt what is happening in this country. You have "Christian" preachers talking about empathy being a sin for fucks sake. Like how can people maintain this sort of ignorance into 2026?

And I don't mean this towards you necessarily. I get some people are still entertaining folks who will never participate in a conversation in good faith because it might influence ignorant observers who stumble across the conversation. But does that ever actually play out? How much time is wasted on people of obvious bad faith? How much time has been wasted on the Shapiros, the Kirks, the Tuckers of the world? The random HN commenter who drops obvious bullshit before disappearing to never be heard from again? You cannot out earnest people flooding the zone with bullshit.

Well, if local police is not cooperating then it's as designed by the constitution (states have the authority to police), to not give federal government powers to make the country a police state. Feature, not a bug. Federals should discuss and persuade the state and their police.

Nobody said the police are not policing. They have their own jobs and not there to do the bidding of the federal government. You're saying this like the local authorities are meant to drop what they are doing at the drop of dime because the feds have a request. These are not dangerous criminals that require a timely response before causing more harm. These are people trying to live their lives and it will not harm the rest of the citizens by doing immigration enforcement at a slower pace.

Did you not notice chasil and deepsun were different accounts?

What does that have to do with my response to the comment I replied?

Your reply to deepsun made no sense as reply to deepsun. You said You're saying this like the local authorities are meant to drop what they are doing at the drop of dime because the feds have a request. But deepsun said the opposite almost.

MN police are delivering criminals with no citizenship status to ICE / DHS though.

They have not been supporting ICE on warrentless invasions, fishing expeditions, assaulting local citizens.

Surely, you're not saying that the feds are saying things that are counter to what's actually happening on the ground, are you? /s

At this point, you just have to assume the truth is exactly the opposite of what the feds are saying. How do you know a fed is lying...their mouth is moving.

Minnesota had to waste taxpayer dollars and setup a website to disprove this BS.

https://mn.gov/doc/about/news/combatting-dhs-misinformation/

It's a feature, not a bug

That's the what the state police is for... the one that Minnesota refused to deploy to help ICE when the Good and Pretti situations happened.

The state police are not "for" non-violent enforcement.

I mean yeah, they're not "for" it but you can see how deploying the PD would be helpful as they're more inclined to be non-violent and also I'd reckon they have far more experience than ICE considering the mass requirements which results in many many ICE officers being pretty much just militarized citizens with lacking experience put into stressful situations.

Why are they more inclined to be non-violent?

Maybe the federal government shouldn't be sending "pretty much just militarized citizens with lacking experience" into "stressful situations."

Kooky idea, I know.

Maybe the state government should send the state police to arrest the murderers.

Kooky idea, I know.

The state police are not for enforcing federal law unless the state wants them to. That's a pretty big part of what makes them STATE police, actually.

Why do we expect the state police to help murderers? My only question is why they're not out there protecting the people from the murderers.

There are 600 police in the area, and 3000 ICE agents. In what practical way can the local police support that and continue policing?

In addition, they are cooperating where they can: https://mn.gov/doc/about/news/combatting-dhs-misinformation/

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