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Comment by dannyfreeman | Hacker News Reader

It is famously against the law to own a gun, and carry it with a permit in the United States.

It's famously peaceful if you carry a gun to a protest and it famously drives no officer around you even more to their edge.

My man loves that boot.

If only take sides and don't make any actual arguments, then unfortunately you won't convince anyone either.

Cops can kill at will isn't something that needs to be argued against.

Cops can kill if they have reason to believe that the other will kill. Look it up.

"at will". They aren't going to give you a medal for how far you can bend over.

You should elaborate, because if this is the sentence you want, it's no different: Cops can kill at will if they have reason to believe that the other will kill.

They can kill when they have a reasonable basis for assuming they are facing an imminent threat to their lives or addressing a threat to public safety (but NOT to prevent criminal activity that isn't life threatening). That isn't the same thing as a license to kill, and they are accountable for charges like murder when they don't meet a "reasonable officer on the scene" standard. I don't consider that to be "at will" (likened to "at will employment") so much as "at their discretion."

Dude, watch this: https://youtu.be/QePoawDA_48?si=0mr-lMR_lIRoBDA_

If these cowardly goons are afraid of American citizens exercising their second amendment rights they should find another job.

As should you refrain from making assesments on human psychology if you are not able to do so.

Interesting. When people who stormed the Capitol openly carried assault rifles, MAGA had no problem with it. They called them patriots and peaceful protesters.

It's not about people carrying a gun at all, it's that should you carry a gun to a protest and should you engage in resisting to law enforcement while doing that. Had this person been perfectly still, he'd be still alive. (And also, had he not had that gun, but still resisted, he'd likely would have also been alive.)

> Had this person been perfectly still, he'd be still alive.

Again, I'd like to see you stay perfectly still after getting peppersprayed in the face without any reason. At no point was he threatening and attacking ICE agents. He was trying to help another woman who had just been assaulted by agents. They created the very situation that led to this tragedy.

There was a reason if you watched the video, it was the "help" of putting his hands on one of the officers. And bringing a gun into a situation like this.

There was a lot of whistlers, but I think the woman being helped was one of them, so this was what started the chain of events.

What started the whole thing is that an ICE agent violently pushed the women from behind.

Yes, because the woman was following the agent around, whistling.

This is no reason for violently pushing someone to the ground, at least by my Central European standards.

And at no point did Alex attack an agent. See my other comment.

If someone were to follow me around while blowing a whistle then that would be quite irritating. What would you do in this situation?

Alex seemed to put hands on an officer. Whether this was well meaning in his head, it might have not seemed so to the officer. (Keep in mind that he had a constant whistle in his ear!)

> What would you do in this situation?

Follow the protocol. If you lose your nerves because of people blowing a whistle, you're in the wrong job.

> Alex seemed to put hands on an officer

Where do you see that? All I see is that he raised his left hand in a protective manner, likely to keep the agent at a distance and protect himself from the pepper spray. After that gesture he turns away from the agent to help the woman on the ground. That's when they grapple him from behind and wrestle him to the ground. At no point did Alex behave in a threatening way or physically attack an agent. The DHS report does not mention any threating behavior either.

Clearly you're not on the wrong job. Find me some info materials on how cops need to be resistant to either mental or physical violence.

I'm sure we'll get a longer investigation into this matter. But it just doesn't seem like a pre-planned killing because they could get away with it, but a tragic sequence of events that you so much wish to bend your way.

I'm not claiming that this was a pre-planned killing. But it was more than just a tragic sequence of events because the agents were very much at fault here. They behaved aggressively and obviously did not know how to properly deal with an ordinary protestor (who clearly was no threat to the agents at any point).

This is the ordinary protestor a little over a week before the event https://youtu.be/r0L9JUjcwo0?t=597.

Alex had a gun with him. If he wanted to appear non-threatening he simply shouldn't have brought it to the event.

I do maintain that this was an unfortunate sequence of events, but I think as this is investigated further, the guilt found on the officers will be small to none.

> This is the ordinary protestor a little over a week before the event

Wow, he kicked an ICE agent's car. The agents must have felt extremely threatened as they didn't even bother to arrest him...

How is this relevant to the shooting again?

> If he wanted to appear non-threatening he simply shouldn't have brought it to the event.

Carrying a gun in a state that allows conceiled carrying cannot be considered a thread in itself. Alex did not behave in a threatening way at any point during that whole situation.

Say officers report that Alex was aggressive on the day he died but there is no video material. The events from a week ago support those statements, as clearly Alex is a man that is quite worked up and capable of physical aggression.

How is it 'resisting' when you have been chemically blinded and being beaten with metal objects?

This idea of people "resisting" when they are being assaulted to death is ridiculous.

If I start beating your face in with the grip of my gun, you deserve to get shot if you "resist"?

Well, the larger sequence of events goes back to the group of people interfering with police work, including the woman whistling along with an officer. She got pushed which was where Alex entered. (Alex had already had a brief contact with the officers minutes before the fatal sequence of events.) Alex also had a gun with him. This eventually led him to being shot.

The researched why will surface likely soon. But as of now, carrying a gun to a protest isn't something that helps with looking harmless.

didnt realize the punishment for that was death

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