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0dayz

Abiding the law?

What law did they break to constitute being shot dead on the spot?

Or do you now support vague charges like "obstruction of justice"?

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One person showed up with a gun, the other tried to flee (or run over) an officer.

Wold you as a police officer always behave perfectly in any urgent situation?

It is famously against the law to own a gun, and carry it with a permit in the United States.

It's famously peaceful if you carry a gun to a protest and it famously drives no officer around you even more to their edge.

My man loves that boot.

If only take sides and don't make any actual arguments, then unfortunately you won't convince anyone either.

Cops can kill at will isn't something that needs to be argued against.

Cops can kill if they have reason to believe that the other will kill. Look it up.

"at will". They aren't going to give you a medal for how far you can bend over.

You should elaborate, because if this is the sentence you want, it's no different: Cops can kill at will if they have reason to believe that the other will kill.

They can kill when they have a reasonable basis for assuming they are facing an imminent threat to their lives or addressing a threat to public safety (but NOT to prevent criminal activity that isn't life threatening). That isn't the same thing as a license to kill, and they are accountable for charges like murder when they don't meet a "reasonable officer on the scene" standard. I don't consider that to be "at will" (likened to "at will employment") so much as "at their discretion."

Dude, watch this: https://youtu.be/QePoawDA_48?si=0mr-lMR_lIRoBDA_

If these cowardly goons are afraid of American citizens exercising their second amendment rights they should find another job.

As should you refrain from making assesments on human psychology if you are not able to do so.

Interesting. When people who stormed the Capitol openly carried assault rifles, MAGA had no problem with it. They called them patriots and peaceful protesters.

It's not about people carrying a gun at all, it's that should you carry a gun to a protest and should you engage in resisting to law enforcement while doing that. Had this person been perfectly still, he'd be still alive. (And also, had he not had that gun, but still resisted, he'd likely would have also been alive.)

> Had this person been perfectly still, he'd be still alive.

Again, I'd like to see you stay perfectly still after getting peppersprayed in the face without any reason. At no point was he threatening and attacking ICE agents. He was trying to help another woman who had just been assaulted by agents. They created the very situation that led to this tragedy.

There was a reason if you watched the video, it was the "help" of putting his hands on one of the officers. And bringing a gun into a situation like this.

There was a lot of whistlers, but I think the woman being helped was one of them, so this was what started the chain of events.

What started the whole thing is that an ICE agent violently pushed the women from behind.

Yes, because the woman was following the agent around, whistling.

This is no reason for violently pushing someone to the ground, at least by my Central European standards.

And at no point did Alex attack an agent. See my other comment.

If someone were to follow me around while blowing a whistle then that would be quite irritating. What would you do in this situation?

Alex seemed to put hands on an officer. Whether this was well meaning in his head, it might have not seemed so to the officer. (Keep in mind that he had a constant whistle in his ear!)

> What would you do in this situation?

Follow the protocol. If you lose your nerves because of people blowing a whistle, you're in the wrong job.

> Alex seemed to put hands on an officer

Where do you see that? All I see is that he raised his left hand in a protective manner, likely to keep the agent at a distance and protect himself from the pepper spray. After that gesture he turns away from the agent to help the woman on the ground. That's when they grapple him from behind and wrestle him to the ground. At no point did Alex behave in a threatening way or physically attack an agent. The DHS report does not mention any threating behavior either.

Clearly you're not on the wrong job. Find me some info materials on how cops need to be resistant to either mental or physical violence.

I'm sure we'll get a longer investigation into this matter. But it just doesn't seem like a pre-planned killing because they could get away with it, but a tragic sequence of events that you so much wish to bend your way.

I'm not claiming that this was a pre-planned killing. But it was more than just a tragic sequence of events because the agents were very much at fault here. They behaved aggressively and obviously did not know how to properly deal with an ordinary protestor (who clearly was no threat to the agents at any point).

This is the ordinary protestor a little over a week before the event https://youtu.be/r0L9JUjcwo0?t=597.

Alex had a gun with him. If he wanted to appear non-threatening he simply shouldn't have brought it to the event.

I do maintain that this was an unfortunate sequence of events, but I think as this is investigated further, the guilt found on the officers will be small to none.

> This is the ordinary protestor a little over a week before the event

Wow, he kicked an ICE agent's car. The agents must have felt extremely threatened as they didn't even bother to arrest him...

How is this relevant to the shooting again?

> If he wanted to appear non-threatening he simply shouldn't have brought it to the event.

Carrying a gun in a state that allows conceiled carrying cannot be considered a thread in itself. Alex did not behave in a threatening way at any point during that whole situation.

Say officers report that Alex was aggressive on the day he died but there is no video material. The events from a week ago support those statements, as clearly Alex is a man that is quite worked up and capable of physical aggression.

How is it 'resisting' when you have been chemically blinded and being beaten with metal objects?

This idea of people "resisting" when they are being assaulted to death is ridiculous.

If I start beating your face in with the grip of my gun, you deserve to get shot if you "resist"?

Well, the larger sequence of events goes back to the group of people interfering with police work, including the woman whistling along with an officer. She got pushed which was where Alex entered. (Alex had already had a brief contact with the officers minutes before the fatal sequence of events.) Alex also had a gun with him. This eventually led him to being shot.

The researched why will surface likely soon. But as of now, carrying a gun to a protest isn't something that helps with looking harmless.

didnt realize the punishment for that was death

Trying to flee is famously not a justification for murder, if anything it's the opposite. You're literally kicking someone while they're down. Or, uh, shooting them. Obviously a fleeing person is not a threat to your life, which is the ONLY justification for a shooting.

Why would you flee from law enforcement, or why would you try to run them over?

It's not relevant because neither are justications for a shooting.

Why did George Floyd counterfeit a 20 or whatever? I don't know, but I do know he deserved due process, not a public execution. Regardless of your political affiliation.

Also, nobody tried to run anyone over. That's just straight up not true and I won't humor it, so don't bother.

There is a video of the woman either doing a getaway or a runover. I don't quite get why would you do that while you are being stopped by law enforcement. And it's also apparently dangerous.

You're missing the point. None of this matters. You're purposefully not addressing the underlying problem - extrajudicial executions - because the conclusion must make you uncomfortable.

Today, the punishment for fleeing is not execution. The conversation ends there. Everything else is just noise, and you know that, so stop.

This video very well sums up my opinion and relates it to law https://youtu.be/QePoawDA_48?si=0mr-lMR_lIRoBDA_

I think you and I both don't know much about the law, but my opinion apparently represents it closer.

If you have the right to bear arms, but law enforcement officers can shoot you if they spot that gun, then you don't actually have the right to bear arms.

You do have the right to bear arms but bearing arms conveys a meaning, that you'd see a reason to use it, so if you have a gun at an event where there are ample amounts of law enforcement present, against who would you be protecting yourself?

So anytime an officer kills a person with a gun, that is now justified?

Despite the fact that the man in question that was killed had a legal permit for said gun AND 1 of the ICE agent even took his gun away and despite this was shot to death while lying on the ground?

So where is the urgency? Not enough KDA ratio to score high enough on the scoreboard?

Your version seems to be that they randomly opened fire. Another version is that a gun went off, not all of the officers knew where the victims gun was, they had also heard someone yell "gun", so after the first shot they opened fire.

It's not that you can be shot at by law enforcement when you are carrying a gun, but that you can be shot at when there is an apparent reason that you are firing at them with it. I'm sure ICE isn't happy about how the events turned out either. But for the protesters: just don't bring a gun!

if the pigs are so scared of guns they should quit.

i was a trained military security officer and i never just drew my gun and shot a guy because i heard a word shouted that was scary.

also: we have a 2nd amendment right to carry guns

melt ice.

Perhaps you are an exception but almost all people are afraid of death. If a person opposing you has a gun then most people get scared.

I'm not debating 2nd amendment. But if you bring a gun to an event already filled with law enforcement, what is your intention?

To have your constitutional rights to bear arms even at a protest or where does it say doubt shall not carry rifle when in assembly?

On top of this are you willing to condemn the anti government protests done by tea party, anti covid lock down and j6 rioters?

At least you'll be consistent.

Sure you have, but carrying a gun also comes with both responsibility, and also may be interpreted that you would use the weapon. To be clear, I'm not arguing the point that it's illegal to carry a gun to a protest, but that it's just not wise.

Then why even make the statement?

Your point about that it's not wise to have a gun on you or flee is completely irrelevant to fact that official officers killed people for it.

Why also not state that it's unwise to go outside because you might be killed by a police officer?

And again was it unwise for tea party, anti government lock down and j6 rioters to have guns on them?

This video also mentions a likely accidental go-off of the weapon https://youtu.be/QePoawDA_48?si=0mr-lMR_lIRoBDA_

I mention it because it it isopined to be likely. We'll hopefully eventually know what whent off and why.

And this video is not a video showcasing a clear analysis of what happen as the man in the video is biased against the victim considering his political background and views.

So sure lying is an opinion you are correct about that, if I say you're a pedophile because you hugged a kid that is just stating a opinion.

Ah, there appears to be video material indicating Pretti's gun going off: https://youtu.be/JFSBPEQYSFE?si=hWz6bthbUtOmprhh

Like I said, if the pigs are scared of doing their jobs properly then they should quit.

Pretty sure cops in general get scared similar to how normal people do.

In the military we were trained day after day to respond to threats logically rather than emotionally. Cops should be held to similar standards.

All your post is showing is that you haven't watched the video.

So at least stop lying and spreading an alternative fantasy world.

On top of this you didn't answer the question: is now any person killed by an officer justified if they got a legal gun on them?

There is no gun shot before the ice office opens fire in any of the 5 different angles of footage we got.

And not only that you change the story midway, first it was heard a gun shit now it's being shot at.

And the guy shooting clearly saw the gun as it was right next to him.

The mental gymnastics you display is worthy of Olympic gold I'll give you that.

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