I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.
imperfectwriting.tumblr.com
imperfectwriting.tumblr.com
Walking a mile in someone else's shoes requires some walking, not reading about it on the internet and making armchair theories.
[edit] Seeing the other replies on this post is definitely way too depressing for Saturday night - a lot of loud, moralistic victim-blaming without understanding. For my own sanity I'm going to take myself out of this post entirely.
So far, the closest experience I have is being white and understanding Chinese - but it doesn't hurt nearly as much, the worst people regularly think about me is that I am an unreliable, eternal frat boy.
http://www.sikhnet.com/pages/tyingturbans
or a Muslim one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r1_HfOMRBM
I'm sure you could go to a local gurdwara or mosque and ask for pointers. They'd probably be over the moon.
It's also not particularly hard to look verging-on-homeless poor.
If you really want to do skin tones, you'll need decent makeup. If you're in a big city, just go by a serious makeup store. (In San Francisco, Kryolan is great.) Otherwise, call up your local community theater and ask them to put you in touch with a makeup artist.
This is a similar story: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cross-closet-straight-christian...
The whole masquerade part also isn't strictly necessary, putting yourself close to the issues at hand is also helpful. I've never been homeless, but I've worked at three separate organizations related to homelessness (an employment/retraining program, a transitional home, and a straight-up shelter) and met many people that way. I will likely never gain a complete understanding of what it is like, but hopefully I've picked up enough of the big things that I'm being less of a net-negative on the world.
Mark Twain once said (or perhaps according to the Internet Mark Twain once said): "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - purposefully exposing yourself to different types of people along all arbitrary lines of division in a substantial way may be the next best thing.
However, unlike discrimination based on someone's skin color or gender, discrimination of clothing has a very easy solution for the person being discriminated against: change your outfit. Some people who love their t-shirt and jeans need to wear a suit every now and again if they want to be treated well or taken seriously by certain people (and vice versa depending on social context--some formal suit-loving people need to dress more casually if they go to certain conventions for a talk). If I were a muslim girl getting discriminated against for wearing a hijab, I'd stop wearing the hijab.
Did you notice that your advice basically amounts to "do your best to look like a straight, white, middle-class Christian"? And that you are basically blaming the victim? Both strike me as terrible advice.
The obvious next step is converting to some religion or faith which requires unusual clothing or body painting, to "make a statement"/ taunt/provoke and then complain about how unfair the world is, for her VOLUNTARY CHOICES.
It's not about blaming the victim - here I would like to blame someone who wants to play the victim, while people are actual victims.
Such a voluntary self sabotage is insulting to people who suffer from discrimination for something they can't change (such as unusual appearance coming from different ethnicity, disease, etc.)
Ela did not "play the victim"; she is not asking for sympathy. She did not sabotage herself; she is whole and unharmed.
I also am dumbfounded that you think it's offensive to victims of discrimination to try to understand them by experiencing discrimination.
She made a change, noticed the negative difference - end of the story.
Some people may want to make a change (even if they know it's vain to try and conform to other people expectations) to try and experience a positive difference - but they can't.
What is offensive to me is how unfair it is for some people to complain about they own choices why other suffer from their lack of choice.
She said, "This experiment gave me a huge wakeup call." That's the opposite of a personal complaint; she's thankful for her experience.
Are you also offended by the book "Black Like Me"? Because I've never heard an actual black person be upset about it.
That you don't consider that part of "looking like people" is not the hijabs' wearer problem.
I did notice my advice has similar forms, except I wouldn't generalize to middle-class or Christian. Another piece of advice I'd offer anyone in America is to learn how to speak Standard White English if you don't know already. But I'm not nearly the first to offer this:
"In class - in my English class - you will have to master and write in Standard Written English, which we might just as well call "Standard White English" because it was developed by white people and is used by white people, especially educated, powerful white people. [RESPONSES at this point vary too widely to standardize.] I'm respecting you enough here to give you what I believe is the straight truth. In this country, SWE is perceived as the dialect of education and intelligence and power and prestige, and anybody of any race, ethnicity, religion, or gender who wants to succeed in American culture has got to be able to use SWE. This is just How It Is. You can be glad about it or sad about it or deeply pissed off. You can believe it's racist and unfair and decide right here and now to spend every waking minute of your adult life arguing against it, and maybe you should, but I'll tell you something - if you ever want those arguments to get listened to and taken seriously, you're going to have to communicate them in SWE, because SWE is the dialect our nation uses to talk to itself... And [STUDENT'S NAME], you're going to learn to use it... because I am going to make you." -- David Foster Wallace, Authority and American Usage
Another piece of advice I'd offer is: grow a thicker skin. Not always a good piece of advice--I would recommend it to an atheist in the US struggling with discrimination from their family and local community, I wouldn't recommend it to an atheist in Egypt--they should get out as quick as possible.
I'll explain to you the core of where my position on this matter comes from. I'm an engineer, and if I see a problem, I look for a feasible solution. The problem expressed by the submission is "people are being discriminated against--whether they deserve it or not, whether they're even muslim or not--because of a piece of clothing that in American society gives off a bad first impression." There are three obvious solutions: stop wearing the hijab, force away the concept of first impressions (not really a good idea) from human minds, or force everyone who harbors resentment towards muslims in general to stop it and love them. Only one of these is easily accomplished. Furthermore, it opens the door for real cognitive dissonance that can actually change people's minds. "Oh, you're a muslim? But you don't wear the thing!" "Not all of us do, and those that do don't just wear it for religious reasons..." Very few people ever learn to notice themselves completing a cached pattern of thought, and even they don't always notice consistently. People typically have to face with premise-defying reality to really change their minds.
If somebody is treated poorly for being who they are and all that comes out of your mouth is "hey victim, you should change" then yeah, you're effectively blaming the victim.
Suppose tomorrow I made a cheap pill that would make black people look white. By your logic, your position would be: "Hey, black people: Racism is hard to change, and it'd be much easier if you just stop being so darned black."
Can you see why that's obvious bullshit? And therefore your "Honey, stop looking so darned Muslim" is similarly bullshit?
So you would, I guess, also suggest that Sikhs should stop wearing turbans, Jews should stop wearing a kippah, nuns should stop wearing habits, pagans should stop wearing pentangles, etc.
Not only is your suggestion frankly both offensive and pretty idiotic, but the world it would lead to would have even more discrimination than now and be a hell of a lot more boring.
You know the saying - you can't change the others, only yourself.
"The more we gave in, the more we complied with that kind of treatment, the more oppressive it became."
If you think that in life, suffering is a good thing, or that some things are more important that your own happiness, yes they are.
Saying that utility functions are the "what there is to life", is a bit like 42 being the answer to life, the universe and everything in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. What meaning you can draw depends totally on what question you are asking, or what perspective you are looking at it from.
For instance, if you are a squirrel, then an economist might be able to calculate a utility function for your behaviour, however the concept of utility functions themselves have no bearing (as far as we know) on "what there is to life" from the squirrel's perspective.
Only if said individuals of the group are uncomfortable with their experience of discrimination. Others have thicker skins and ignore it, and some don't face any discrimination at all. Some want to rebel against society like a teenager and knowingly do stuff that gets them disapproval. My advice is an obvious solution to a specific problem, it does not generalize to "all members of X".
Do you make this crap up yourself, or does it get sent to you through the mail as part of your subscription to Batshit Monthly?
I totally realize it's not really even in the ballpark, but it was close enough for me.
(Not meaning to make light of what was an excellent post. Is just that I read your edit, and I thought you might be cheered up by sillyness.)
And honestly, do you think the person who posted this Tumblr cares what anyone on HN thinks?
Perhaps people avoid muslim women because we don't want them to get in to trouble. I'm surprised to see women dressed like that out in public on their own, because I've been led to believe they need male escorts, and assume that one might be around. if I make eye-contact, I might be contributing to an honor-killing, or perhaps some acid-splashed on her face.
That's a very, very small subset of hijab wearers, and you're unlikely to see any of them at a Western mall.
Do you not look at all women because they might have insanely jealous boyfriends who will then kill them for that too, hey it's technically possible right, so you should err on the side of caution?
No, I don't think every time I look at a woman in a hijab she will be killed, but it does come in to the back of my mind more often than it does when seeing other women in local shops/stores/malls.
Is it prejudicial, as in pre-judging? Yes. People wearing certain types of garb send out signals intended to portray specific meaning. Sometimes extra meanings they didn't intend are also inferred.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_Sta...
Women who wear head scarves while being perfectly happy to make eye contact are statistically higher than both, by a huge margin.
I want to be clear I never had a problem with any of the dudes beyond a conversation. I think they were confused too because they wanted to defend their culture, but really had no moral objections.
Many American-Muslim women wear a hijab by choice and are very friendly/social people who would be glad to interact with others.
There is a difference between culture and religion. A person who practices Islam in America might have entirely different cultural customs than a person who practices Islam in Afghanistan. (i. e. male escorts, eye contact, etc)
Please don't rely on FUD to inform your opinions/prejudices/judgments. And when in doubt ask.
Posted elsewhere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_Sta...
You find it strange that people look at you funny when you wear a hijab in a western country?
I have a Muslim cousin and she sometimes wears a hijab to university but stopped because people would stare at her. Obviously! She stuck out like a sore thumb amidst a sea of people with no hijabs. She got tired of people asking her if she had cancer, if she was arab (lol at this one, people automatically think muslim == arab), etc.
You are like the coach of a sporting team pointing out all the teams that finished lower than yours on the ladder and saying "We did great compared to them. Good job. Keep it up."
Surely, if you were actually interested in improving your team, you would point out the teams that finished above you on the ladder and say "We can do better. Here's where to improve."
Somewhere along the line, America was so busy congratulating itself that it has forgotten it should be striving to do better.
You missed the point. Everyone knows the sports team that constantly finishes in the middle of field is better than those below. OK, we get it.
Why are you so concerned with comparing America to the countries that everyone knows are "lower" than America?
If you actually had any interest in improving, you'd be looking at those countries higher than America, and you'd notice the gap between America and the top of the ladder is growing very, very quickly.
But lets twist it, only without the masquerade: Imagine 'Ela' is on holiday in the Near East and wears a tank top. Don't you think that people would 'look funny at her'? She also might get molested for not being dressed properly. Local women even get stoned for that.
Chances are the kid's asking the question because the parent or another adult equates a head scarf with terrorism.
> But lets twist it, only without the masquerade: Imagine 'Ela' is on holiday in the Near East and wears a tank top. Don't you think that people would 'look funny at her'? She also might get molested for not being dressed properly. Local women even get stoned for that.
NONE OF WHICH IS THE LEAST FUCKING BIT OKAY, EITHER!
So either the parents or even the kid itself is brainwashed by poorly spinned U.S. TV.
> NONE OF WHICH IS THE LEAST FUCKING BIT OKAY, EITHER!
Ofc, stop screaming, I didn't said it was.
Stop implying such bullshit into others statement. All I said was that in those countries people treat foreigners much worse. I didn't justify or judge either side.
So, its not as obvious to some of the rest of us. I honestly had never thought that wearing a hijab would change 99% of your social interactions with strangers in a negative way.
I probably ignore women in hijabs more often than other women. I'm not going to any more.
What she's complaining about is aversion, fear, and prejudice. And I don't think the solution to that is "Try harder to look like an attractive, middle-class white person."
Saudi Arabia makes no claim about being open or tolerant of other religious practices, sexual orientations and so on. So at least they don't pretend, in that respect, they also don't get criticized for hypocrisy, while the "West" does.
An interesting experiment to come up with would be to wear something that clearly indicates you are muslim but doesn't change your physical attractiveness (again by western standards).
The whole point is dont look attractive to other people, just like abstinence.
People get judged all the time. I can give you examples where I felt people judged me because of Eating with hands, drinking coffee with milk and sugar, wearing sandals instead of shoes.
Maybe I'm clueless and prejudiced and all that but it seems to me that religion was a perfectly "open" choice, ie something you can change at any time.
Comparing that in any way to racism is insulting. People do not chose their ethnicity. People can chose their religion.
Your religion makes you feel bad? Then change it since you can!!
People have a belief because they believe. Or perhaps because they think a certain lifestyle is a good one (isn't that what bhuddism is? I know too little about this...).
How is it convenient _not_ believing in a religion?
Which is not to say that convenience should be the important factor in any such decision.
I've known Muslim who'll eat pork when not in the presence of other Muslims who would frown on that. I'm not sure how important trying to remain within their community is to them, but maybe they would stop practising if they could do so without prejudice from their own community.
I think everyone needs a reality check.
errr. prtty sure 'racism' was never mentioned. This is an issue of stereotyping and possibly also religious tolerance.
Sure you can change your religion, but do you really think that social norms should be enforced on wider society through ridicule? What century are we living in?
Do you think I should ask them first before acting like a prejudiced asshole? Or should I just try to guess based on appearance?
People CAN choose their religion, but should they based off of how other people make them feel about it?
You're missing a step... "Your religion makes you feel bad" NO! Other people make me feel bad about my religion. That's pretty obviously prejudice.
Also for most groups of people they don't chose their religion and can't simply change it (family pressures), and while what is described in the article refers to religion (hijab) having dark skin and speaking farsi or urdu is just as likely to cause the reaction in people due to fear of muslims, the prejudiced people are just as likely to filter on ethnic/nationality grounds as religious ones.
As far as terrorism reference goes, that's a perfect example of generalization, another thing the whole humanity exercises daily simply because that is the way our reasoning works. Unfortunate it might be, but people generalize everywhere and about everything, and especially so when they are frightened.
However, I also agree that we, human beings, run to stigmatize an entire community rather quickly. For example, much of the Indian community in India thinks that "white" folks are more promiscuous. All of them. It is a widespread notion that they are ready for sex. There is no research that I can cite and only a few personal experiences and examples. e.g. http://www.whiteindianhousewife.com/2012/04/the-other-side-o...
How can these things change?
And if it is more than just a fashion statement, but a symbolism of religion, then we open up a whole new can of worms. The wearing of burqa'esq clothing is highly controversial, as its banning in various countries across Europe is discussed and in parts even implemented [1].
So many of the comments show an ignorance I thought to be a thing of the past or at least taboo.
But there seems to be just as many other commenters trying to help educate and enlighten, it's great to see that we are at least making progress.
"well reasoned and justified prejudices"
Are things that get up-modded that fast dropped as off-topic?
Thanks!
I am sure the only response would be remarks from children who are not yet attuned to social norms, e.g. not commenting on peoples appearances. After all, we do live in a globalized society.
I am not afraid to say that I have a relatively low opinion of the current Islamic culture. Sure it may have been great 1000 years ago, but with the executions for homosexuality, stoning in Pakistan/Afghanistan, and murder of westerners [Theo van Gogh et al] not to mention the horrible treatment of women, it honestly just pisses me off. Mabey in some parts of majority-Muslim nations it isn't that bad after all, but it doesn't really matter as I am unlikely to have much contact with strict Muslims in the first place.
It has everything to do with Islam and Islamic culture, which are two different things, both of which have different presences around the world.
For the record, I don't like Islamic culture. I don't judge individual people, but I believe that a religion that was founded by a pedophile [aisha] and murderer [jews and others] should not have any influence on the world today. The best way to get rid of Islam is to stop believing in it, but oddly enough Muslims have a habit of stoning apostates.
It could be nuclear fallout from Japan, or Islam, or H1N1, or drug cartels in Mexico, or Canadian healthcare, or communists, or the Arab Spring, or any number of other things that for all intents are purposes are almost entirely non-threatening to the average citizen on the street.
The focus of the fear is completely irrelevant. The primary goal is perpetual fear itself.
On the other hand, if the average American does show some interest in international affairs or political ideas, people say he's in perpetual fear and mind controlled by politicians.
You just can't win.