It feels kind of weird when.. you get rejected and than 5 months later read about.. your idea | Hacker News Reader

It feels kind of weird when.. you get rejected and than 5 months later read about.. your idea

news.ycombinator.com

42 pointssegnor20 comments

Just in case anyone's uncertain, let me say explicitly that there's no connection. I don't remember knarf's group's application, but I'm sure we didn't turn anyone down because Immad and Jude were already working on a similar idea. (We do sometimes turn down a group because another group is doing the same thing, but I didn't understand what Immad and Jude were doing at the time.)

I'm not entirely sure why this is worth posting up on the front page...

Ideas are everywhere. Even groundbreaking, "hard" ideas (e.g. Calculus) can occur in several places at once. Certainly, a flash game widget is not a new idea and is being implemented by dozens of start-ups at this point in time. The fact that two of them were connected with YCombinator is neither surprising nor inappropriate.

This is a good example of why VCs never sign NDAs, basically. The chances of this stuff happening by chance (rather than malice) is way too high.

It sounds trite, perhaps, but it's worth repeating that ideas are just one ingredient in a successful start-up. Execution, timing, people, choice of technology, marketing... all those are just as important, if not more.

I know of at least one other flash game widget that was pitched to an investor in very recent times.

Indeed - plus when people link comments as topics it confuses the hell out of me.

Your last line hits the nail on the head - It's an impossibility for YC to give a detailed rejection to everyone, it's also impossible to second guess why you might have got rejected (if you could, you'd have most likely rejected the idea yourself).

Rejection sucks - in this circumstance, the best thing for the OP to do is - take a deep breath - (try to) do a rational 360 degree on themselves, their team and their idea - and move on/forward/upwards.

'Even groundbreaking, "hard" ideas (e.g. Calculus) can occur in several places at once. '

Indeed. The RSA algorithm - the basis for online commerce - was parallel thought by two different teams of security researchers years apart, first by GCHQ (part of the British government) then by RSA.

After interviewing for PriceAdvance we were concerned that YC would mention our idea to Bountii as it's in a similar vein. They did not, and further demonstrated a level of integrity I imagine is unusual in the VC space by not doing so. (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=78761)

Without hearing more about how your idea was different it's very difficult to say whether or not it's just obvious next step, something others would easily come up with. It is, of course, with anything, more about the team than the idea, as has been said elsewhere. The execution rather than just the idea itself.

Regardless, for my part, I find YC above reproach when it comes to any insinuation that any sort of collusion or anything untoward might occur with respect to genuinely interesting / novel / unique ideas.

A little anecdote about ideas:

A few years ago, I was talking to some members of my family who had a product idea they wanted to develop. The idea was to sell travel toothbrushes with toothpaste pumps in the handle of the toothbrush, so that the paste could be stored in the toothbrush and dispensed through the head of the brush.

A few months later, I came across another couple, 5000 miles away in another country discussing the exact same idea and speaking of investing their life savings into the development.

Just last week, I heard someone speaking at a startup event about developing and working on the exact same product

The point is, somewhere right now, someone is having the EXACT SAME IDEA as you. Scratch that, 5 people are thinking about the same idea. A good idea is important, but an idea is meaningless.

Design it. Build it. Sell it. Ideas won't make you any money, and nor will complaining.

Without tying to be harsh I'd say 'get over it'.

Many people come up with the same idea around the same time (take a look at Newton and Leibniz). Also, it wouldn't be a great surprise if information leaked inside YC. I bet PG isn't willing to sign an NDA when you come to see him (and no VC will sign an NDA). That's not to say that PG is being malicious, it's just the nature of being exposed to thousands of business plans that they'll be leakage between them.

Without trying to be harsh, and given your 'orange' status I realize I'm walking on thin ice here ;), but don't you think that to say that you would not be surprised that there would be leakage within YC of people pitching to established contacts is potentially highly damaging for YC and that that in turn would make people skittyish of pitching to YC ?

I know the VC's that I work for are exceptionally dilligent in avoiding such exposure, they would never ever stand for such a claim being made about them.

Just a little meta-nit-pick, but honestly, his "orange status" should not make you feel like you're "walking on thin ice" or otherwise impede your urge to declare your disagreement.

His orange status should not exist.

hence the ;)

I thought that was pretty obvious, forgive me.

I agree. Ignore my oranginess when replying to my posts.

As I understand it, VCs routinely refuse to sign NDAs, because (as mentioned elsewhere) it's very common for two teams to independently come up with the same idea, and the VCs don't want to be in a situation where they have to convince a jury that they didn't reject a certain team's proposal and then leak the underlying idea to someone else. (And yeah, I'm cynical enough to assume that once in a while that's exactly what happens.) So in this respect YC is no worse than anyone else.

Your Orangeness,

I have a niggling doubt about YC - that their connections and network and the whole environment might make the difference between success and failure in marginal cases, or the difference between a moderate success and a big success in other cases, if other things are mostly the same: a couple of smart, motivated hackers. If this is indeed the case, people are right to feel bad if they get rejected, because they lost out on a big opportunity.

It would be interesting to be able to test the "YC effect", but difficult. One way might be for PG and company to select a group of people who are ... perhaps not 'mediocre', but not quite as good as the rest, and see how well they do (obviously you can't tell them that they're the test group). However, that has obvious problems: 15K+ is a decent chunk of change to spend on an experiment, and it's not a 'double blind'.

(Disclosure: never applied to YC, likely never will, unfortunately)

While a situation like this would initially anger me and turn me off to the idea of continuing, I've learned to channel negative thoughts into something positive. And don't mistake me, I'm not at all the mystical or enlightened type.

What I mean is that I've learned to channel my rage into productivity. In situations like these, you need to know how to motivate yourself. Visualize being in a much bigger spotlight than your competitor, getting blogged by TechCrunch and having every comment be positive, getting phone calls from high-ups at businesses interested in acquisition. If you're the vengeful type, think about having enough FU money to set things right in the future. Focus on whatever it is that means success to you, and try to get there.

If your #1 goal was really only to get YC funding, and if you allow failing at one particular goal to stop you, then you just weren't cut out for this.

"yc chose somebody else (who had already in the program before) to create a business" I have to admit this part leave a bit uneasy from now on I will have to think twice before ...

OMG! YouTube for games! That was my idea, and you all stole it!

But seriously, this is an idea that's 100% execution, with tons of little things to get right.

I'm upvoting this because it's worth discussion and I know how you feel.

True story: I knew a webmaster running a popular, static site that was bringing in $2k/month near pure passive for him, but he'd stopped updating his site and seemed to be losing interest. I decided I'd offer him $20,000 for his site since it was really related to the company I was with, and I thought I could make a decent return on it. I was willing to go as high as $30,000 if I went through the books and they looked good.

So I meet the guy, and we went bowling together. I start talking, and a competitor I knew had just bought the site a couple months ago - for $30,000.

Meh, I saw a little bit of red for a while, but this competitor was one of my most respected. He and I would go out to lunch from time to time and share ideas, but I'd never even insinuated at anything like my plan.

Great ideas will be came up with independently of each other. If you're seeing a pattern of ideas you've got being created, then great job - it means you're thinking intelligently about market needs and possibilities. Just keep hustling, move fast when you do have a great idea, execute, and you'll get yours. Cheers man, I know the feeling - it sucks - but keep it up and you'll get yours.

So if it was 5 months ago, why haven't you launched yet? Did getting rejected spoil your motivation? If so, you likely wouldn't have pulled it off anyway. Everyone is rejected at some point, and every idea has been thought, of and many are being developed. As everyone keeps echoing - it's in the execution. Come up with something new and do it - or if you think the folks who just launched aren't doing it right, or well enough, go after them.

Best of luck.

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