Comment by vladvasiliu | Hacker News Reader

Comment by vladvasiliu | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

I don't know if it's the case in Germany, but here in France consumer FTTH networks are of the GPON persuasion. These need to handle encryption and be able to properly register on the tree, so I'm not completely shocked they require some form of ISP-provided device to terminate the fiber connection.

There's also a EU law which says that users should be able to bring their own modems / routers, so AFAIK providers say that this particular terminal device is still "on their side of the network".

I've seen such devices come in two varieties.

One is a separate device which plugs on the optical network, does the encryption and stuff, and then exposes an ethernet port which is connected to the actual router which does wifi, etc. With SFR and Bouygues, it was trivial [0] to replace the ISP-provided router with one of your choosing. You get the normal external IPs and you do your thing. The ISP router sleeps in its box in storage. This was my setup up until a few years ago, with both these providers. Now SFR has moved to CGNAT, but the setup is the same, so I expect users to still be able to switch routers (but I haven't tested, since I'm not a client anymore).

Then there's Free, who provides a single device that connects to the fiber, does routing, wifi, etc. In this case, it's possible to flip a switch in its settings for it to act as a bridge (don't know how wifi behaves in this case, if it stays on). It then only accepts a single downstream client, which gets the external IP. SFR had a similar setup for DOCSIS.

I'm not familiar with how Orange, the biggest operator, functions. But I understand they have a general tendency to be a PITA so YMMV with them.

---

[0] For Bouygues, this device only talked on a tagged VLAN100 for some reason. On the SFR, the network expected you to send a client id in the DHCP request.

The term you're looking for is "demarc" or: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarcation_point

This is the physical boundary of a network, in telecommunications. This is the junction where the service provider can point and say "that's our equipment on this side". So it helps to narrow down the troubleshooting.

Often, if you have a telephone landline, you will see your demarc take the form of a gray RJ11 box with a small self-plug in it. It would be common practice to plug a phone into that box directly, then you've eliminated the "inside wiring" in the house.

The 8311 discord is a great source of technical info and help on using your own PON equipment of various sorts with providers

I've seen things about this, but I'm not convinced there's enough value in going to great lengths to replace that particular piece of equipment.

In the case where the terminating equipment is a small box that exposes ethernet, with no routing or otherwise interfering the function of my own router, I think it's good enough. An argument could be made for the all-in-one devices, like saving some power.

I get the geek factor, and it's one of the reasons why I run my own router, but for this specific bit, which needs to be fairly well integrated with the ISP's network, combined with their usual abysmal support, I think it's a better bet to just leave it alone.

For me the issue would be that they mandate the user traffic to be vlan tagged but their modem only exports 1000BASE-T so it's physically impossible for me to get the full gigabit of Internet they sold me.

They most probably sold you 'up to 1 Gb' bandwidth, not just '1 Gb'. Overhead is about the same in these cases. Your losses are negligible. It's more painful having 4-5 (on worst time periods/peers) or 6-7 (on best) of the 'up to 10 Gb' (clearly sold as such) fiber access I have.

Legally they are physically unable to provide the gigabit they claim I could get. That's the problem here.

Sure, due to the shared medium nature they do not promise to always have even particularly close to a full gigabit available for me, but that's documented according to the 3 residential internet SLA thresholds the BNetzA (Germany's FCC; except they also regulate power and gas grid) defines and that a provider has to cough up numbers in an info sheet at the time of sale.

The issue is that if they are physically incapable of delivering the up-to they sell and it's not due to the unpredictable nature of e.g. radio reception strength or POTS wiring quality (ADSL), this very quickly very strongly reeks of fraud. Even just a little bit is fraud, just as systematically under-delivering e.g. gasoline would be. Think if you bought that in cans and they say they're e.g. 5 gallon (or 20 liter) each, and at nominal temperature, none of the cans you can actually find for sale end up having the full quantity, always being at least an ounce (~30ml) short.

> I'm not familiar with how Orange, the biggest operator, functions. But I understand they have a general tendency to be a PITA so YMMV with them.

I can only attest how they work here in Spain: They're not the best in terms of the 'openness' of their hardware: (in Spanish, feel free to us a translator) https://bandaancha.eu/articulos/router-pone-orange-jazztel-s...

Can confirm you can still replace the ISP provided router from SFR with your own, even if you're on IPv4 CGNAT in France. You do still need to configure the DHCP client ID.

My connection has been very reliable since ditching the SFR box. My own router plugs into the separate ONT.

SFR also offers good IPv6 support.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com