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Comment by shevy-java | Hacker News Reader

> And surprinsingly cheaper ( 40 euros vs 45 ) .

> [ as much as I do not like Musk & co, this is a real useful thing he build for the mankind - internet everywere from sattelite ]

Right - but then you also depend on an US service here. And the USA changed policy where Europeans became enemies ("we won't give you arms to defend against Russian invaders! Greenland will be occupied by our military soon!").

It's a bad situation, lose-lose here. I don't think the price difference is the primary problem though; the behaviour of Telekom is the problem. That must change. The state has to ensure fairness rather than allow monopolies to milk The People.

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> he behaviour of Telekom is the problem. That must change. The state has to ensure fairness rather than allow monopolies to milk The People.

The state is the monopoly here.

Telekom is still partially state-owned (~27%), since they were, back in the 90s, privatized from the former total monopoly "Deutsche Bundespost" and the related ministry "Bundespostministerium". Nowadays, the parts of the ministry that were back then regulating EM spectrum, allowable phones (basically phone police, you had to rent from Bundespost or go to jail) and generally being corrupt (relations of the former ministry to copper manufacturers is why they botched the first fibre rollouts in '95 and then ignored the topic for 20 years). Nowadays, the "Regulierungsbehoerde", staffed with the same people, is supposed to regulate their former colleagues at Telekom. Telekom got all the networks and was never split up, so it still has a (~85%?) monopoly on everything copper basically, as well as on customers, using this monopoly to bully other ISPs as well as it's own customers and extending this monopoly into future tech. And the state has a financial interest in this regulation being as lax as possible. So you can imagine how this goes...

The best solution here would probably be the EU launching its own internet constellation. China and the US both have them. How is this any different than the issues surrounding GPS?

The EU did do that, decades ago. The problem is that it requires constant investment. It's not profitable. The governments helped build it, abandoned the companies until they went bankrupt, rescued them (they're not actually insane enough to just abandon working satellites), privatized them, they went bankrupt, ...

Obviously the satellites were never modernized. But it does work, for a few thousand terminals for all of Europe with 2x to 10x the ping Starlink provides.

It's like a lot of things in the EU: on the one hand the EU absolutely requires this infrastructure, or they become dependent on foreign nations for critical infrastructure. But they won't pay. It's not even that expensive. Starlink was built with budgets that would be double-digit millions per year per EU country. But the main problem always repeats: they can't agree who gets the money/business.

If you calculate the lifespan and cost of a Starlink satellite you will come to the obvious conclusion: it will be very hard for Starlink to break even. Of course, the same can be said for most of Musk's businesses (perhaps all. I'm not actually aware of any exceptions)

> If you calculate the lifespan and cost of a Starlink satellite you will come to the obvious conclusion: it will be very hard for Starlink to break even.

We don't have up to date revenue numbers but let's look at spending $5B a year on sattelite launches. That's probably around half their current revenue, and they're gaining customers quickly. They're doing about 100 launches a year, and each launch is about 30 $1M satellites and $15M of rocket. That fits into the budget.

And for just maintaining the constellation they could cut the number of launches in half.

Well there is one : Eutelsat OneWeb

Huh TIL. What a troubled history. Bankruptcy shortly following launch of the initial batch, then in 2022 Russia stole the launch fee and a stack of 36 satellites from them.

They're online but unfortunately it seems they don't sell directly to consumers? So you have to find a local reseller. Sounds needlessly complicated.

Apparently Amazon's constellation should be available for consumers within the next 6 months as well. Qianfan not until next year (I didn't realize they had hit delays). So there should be direct-to-consumer Starlink alternatives SOON™.

But honestly is like a movie or what? we have Musk, Bezos and Xi. Hard to choose. We need netral or less controversial player.

For the curious:

2022 Russia controversy

In March 2022, media reported that OneWeb was scheduled to launch a batch of 36 satellites from Baikonur cosmodrome days after Russia's invasion of Ukraine. There were calls for the UK to cancel the launch. Russia said the launch had already been paid for and would not be refunded, and would be cancelled from the Russian side unless OneWeb provided additional assurance that the satellites would never be used for military purposes and the British Government disposed of its shares in the company. The British government refused this demand and the launch was cancelled, along with other Russian launches. OneWeb tried through negotiations to get the stack of 36 satellites back, stranded in Kazakhstan due to political reasons. However, these negotiations never progressed. As OneWeb was on the verge of completing its 1st generation satellite network, they gave up hope in March 2023 on further attempts to get their satellites back, potentially scrapping the batch. The satellites were insured for $50 million, and OneWeb received the insurance money for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutelsat_OneWeb#:~:text=2022%2...

A better solution is guaranteed broadband internet for all people living in Germany. With heavy fines if ISPs can't deliver that.

Well, you have a point but on the other side since about 20 years the Telekom does not even think about improving the internet connection in the place I live. At some point you're just fed up. To me it seems like they just do not care about providing a good service and even if they would now provide a good service I would be more willing to give my money someone else.

are all starlink connections routed through the US?

don't they do local downlinks? at least for countries they have an agreement with or where the infrastructure is available?

What does it matter where they are routed through? You think your Starlink service in Germany is beyond the control of Musk or the US government?

I think Musk cares about revenue more than pissing off some random customer in Germany. As long as you don't stand out from the crowd, he'd rather have your $40. Use a VPN to be sure.

Until the us government says to withhold service or to tap the line.

Musk is a subject of the US president. Like all American CEO’s he has to pay his tribute and jump when the president’s law enforcement says to.

If you don't stand out, and use a VPN, they can get nothing. If they cut your service, well, you can switch back to DT, crap as it is.

i misread the parent. i read it as depending on the US internet but they meant depending on US regulations. so yes, it doesn't matter for the latter.

Who owns and controls starlink? A local downlink dish or a US defense contractor?

No. My endpoint is in Berlin. Which implies there is a EU based major downlink somewhere.

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