Hacker News Reader

Comment by eudamoniac | Hacker News Reader

Yes, this is terrible. Before now it was fine, just Chinese intelligence agencies and data brokers mining it and Chinese interests pumping it full of human and bot sockpuppets to manufacture the consent of users to be more aligned with ideas that work best for the CCP's interests, but now it's just ruined.

View on HN

I’ll engage with this because I’m curious about your position. I’m not a TikTok user and I’m not American.

All the other American controlled social media platforms are exactly like your China description from my point of view: it’s American agencies and data brokers mining it and American interests pumping it.

Do you think a reasonable course of action is for us to force the sell of American platforms? I have no sympathy for what China is doing but I have no sympathy for what America is doing either.

Why do you think one’s more acceptable other than “it’s my country doing it”, assuming you are American that is.

Not the person you're replying to, but:

> Do you think a reasonable course of action is for us to force the sell of American platforms?

Yes, absolutely. If your country's people believe that WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, etc. are a threat in the same way, they should take the same action.

(Mind you, I don't believe for a second that this was the real motivation behind what's gone on with TikTok, but I think it's a reasonable course of action to take if you think there is a threat there, regardless of what company or country we're talking about.)

Personally I’m of the opinion that forcing sale and nationalization is not a good way to go about solving these issues.

I think one better way would be to make it so there are consequences for actions. And consequences should start flowing from the top but I know this is a dream and we live in a world where consequences for their actions are no longer a thing that exists if you have enough money.

You have no real reason to believe me, but if it's worth anything, I work with US agencies in the domain of information warfare and the relationships with platforms are tenuous if not adversarial. And nothing happens on the scale you might imagine. But if you really do believe that the US is pulling the platforms' strings, I do indeed encourage disentanglement or forcing sales as you describe. What I have seen through my work has strongly reinforced my biases against the Chinese government, but I recognize that others may view my own government in that light.

Personally, I worry more about the platforms and data brokers themselves, as I think everyone should and does. They hold disproportionate power and their incentives drive us all in the wrong direction.

So, I both don’t have any reason not to take your words at face value and I also don’t have any reason to believe you are in the know of anything that’s happening within your government. I assume you’re not the president (you write too well and make too much sense to be him)

So there’s obviously a level of general skepticism here that I consider to be healthy.

That said, the simple fact that lobbying is a thing and the government can be influenced by the use of money is a sign that the A relationship of some level exists.

Now, I personally am on none of those platforms. I use the bare minimum I need and even in that case, as a paying customer of those companies, I don’t expect them to treat me nicely.

Because money seems te be the only thing that matters at this point and morals are way further down the line.

All that said, from an outside observer, seeing the China argument coming from America, considering everything that’s happening in plain sight, it’s ironic to say the least.

> And nothing happens on the scale you might imagine

Do you think it will be different with TikTok US, being owned by Trump's friends (and family?) ?

I think it's reasonable if your governments don't want America to have your data. I don't personally care if China has my data but nor do I care if they are forced to divest. It's certainly "acceptable" if any country wants to do that.

The difference to end users is they changed their technofedual overlords. No lasting freedom can be had using apps owned by profit-extractive corporations.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com