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Comment by ks2048 | Hacker News Reader

ks2048

More evidence that Carney’s speech marks the end of American global “leadership”

I didn't need Carney's speech to mark that, Jan 6 2025 was the date.

I'd posit that Jan 20 2017 marked the beginning of the end.

It's a daily challenge to keep track and not spiral into despair. It's not just that one man, it's that so many citizens love him. It truly boggles the mind.

It does indeed, and I agree that is a good alternative date but a lot of people still had the excuse that they did not know how bad it could get. For the re-run they knew exactly what to expect and still voted for it.

It can always get worse, and it has.

Prediction: it will get worse still.

I wish you were wrong but you aren't.

The big question is how far until we bottom out, and what does "recovery" look like. The fact that the political divide has grown so that realities do not converge is rather terrifying.

The scala of possible outcomes here is so broad it is terrifying. The best the rest of the world can hope for is that it will remain contained but I think we are already seeing plenty of evidence that will not be the case.

December 12, 2000.

The US might have had a president who was knowledgeable about technology and dedicated to solving climate change.

Who might have chosen differently about invading Afghanistan and Iraq.

I'm sure Gore would have made mistakes, but it's hard to see a path where he wasn't a better president (for the US and for the world) than W Bush.

Completeley agree. It's such a stark contrast between Bush senior and junior, too-- GWB put the US on such a bad trajectory (middle east interventionism, surveillance state, etc.), altough 9/11 probably deserves a lot of blame for it.

I also blame the republicans for turning elections more and more into polarized shit slinging personalized attacks instead of policy based arguments, and I'd argue that this really took off in the Clinton era, and then got really bad under Obama/Trump.

I think that in the scheme of things GHWB was the most qualified and "best" of their offerings I've seen in my many years.

mccain seemed quite respectable and i liked the spirit of his campaign reform efforts. they were probably more strategic than altruistic. on the other hand palin seems like shed fit right in with the clown show conservatives trot out now

Yep. He made a mistake in conceding as he could have won that battle:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections200...

Yes and no. It would have been corrosive to democracy to fight too hard. Gore cared more about the country than his own ambition.

See: Trump

Insisting that the proper process is followed, when that process is known to be good, is fighting the good fight. Sure, the fight would've been corrosive, but I don't think the burden of moral responsibility for such a thing is on the defenders.

If Gore had fought harder and won, Gore would have been president but democratic legitimacy and belief in the voting process would have been damaged (in half the country).

If Gore had fought harder and lost, Bush president and same.

The public wouldn't have believed / understood voting recount nuances: longer battle in courts = less faith in voting.

So it came down to weighing the corrosion of the voting process against goodness of Gore v Bush as president.

I don't think in 2000 anyone (including Gore) could have predicted that W's (and Cheney's) choices would be as poor as they were.

> The US might have had a president who was knowledgeable about technology and dedicated to solving climate change.

might have had? Ha, you should read up a bit on Jimmy Carter.

> A generation from now this solar heater can either be a curiosity, a museum piece, an example of a road not taken, or it can be just a small part of one of the greatest and most exciting adventures ever undertaken by the American people.

That was him when he put solar panels on the roof of the White House, which Ronnie Ray-Gun removed and sent to a museum.

It wasn't intended as an exclusionary statement.

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