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Comment by Sn0wCoder | Hacker News Reader

You do realize that 2-4% is not left on the 'table' its taken from the merchant you are shopping at. If you are at a big box store sure but when going to local merchants its best for them if you use debit or cash. One could argue the merchant 'choose' to accept CC but in this day and age its more like extortion because the CC lobbyist were able to make it illegal to pass that charge onto the customer.

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Don't you think the 2 to 4% is built into the prices of every merchant that accepts credit cards, big or small?

It's not a great system but it's what we have so using debit instead of credit does mean losing out.

At the big box stores absolutely they have it worked in to the prices. I have no idea if the local mom and pop shops are working that 2-4% into their prices or not.

Yes, they do. They understand where their margins go and the fees on credit cards are a huge one. They simply don’t have much of a choice.

Mom and Pop stores are basically the only places left that reliably give you a cash discount for not using a card. Sometimes advertised at checkout, sometimes you need to ask.

Especially service companies. They tend to quote out "cash" (aka check/bank transfer) price and then add another 5% or so if you want to pay via card. There of course is very often an even cheaper "actual cash" price too you need to ask for if you are so inclined.

I had this thought as well. I didn't want to raise it myself, because I don't have any personal evidence that this is the case, but of course the "cash back" has to come from somewhere.

> the CC lobbyist were able to make it illegal to pass that charge onto the customer.

This is no longer a thing, there was a settlement with Visa/MC that removed this provision from their merchant contracts. You are now allowed to pass on transaction fees if you feel like it as a merchant.

It was also never illegal. It simply was part of the contract to do accept Visa/MC/Amex and they'd close your merchant account if you got caught doing it.

Handling cash costs money too though. I know some small business are credit/debit card only since they do not want to deal with the hassle of cash. Out of everywhere I have been, only one place (some grocery chain in SLC) has accepted debit cards but not credit cards.

In some countries they simply outlawed such high fees, merchants pay lower fees and there's no cashback.

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