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Comment by daedrdev | Hacker News Reader

Its only the first 50K that get 6%, still pretty interesting as being physically so close to the US could cause people in the US to get their first look at Chinese cars.

Chinese car companies face far more ruthless competition than western ones so could end up making better cars as a result, imo.

There are over 100 brands in china selling electric cars

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exactly this - once people realize how far ahead Chinese manufacturing is, they'll put pressure where it's needed to either a) allow more to be imported, because people want nice things, or b) bring the manufacturing process over, like they did with the japanese cars

It's 50,000+ users to learn from. Chinese companies have gotten pretty good at learning.

With their capacity, they could perfectly replicate and improve a Rivian (popular in the US) and still sell for $15k less.

Until US bans PRC cars on US soil... pretty easy to make the case based on surveillance / NSL. Won't take much for BYD to become next DJI/Norinco.

Chinese EVs are already way ahead of most western EVs - really, you need to see some of the cars the likes of Zeekr, Lynk & Co, Denza and Xpeng are releasing.

Could you explain some specific ways in which they are ahead?

In the case of the Xiaomi SU7[1]: you name it. Pretty much every conceivable way. Performance, comfort, electronics, styling, build quality. Xiaomi is on par with Apple for electronics and they actually followed through on making the car Apple wishes they made. Sells for around 40k, so on par with a Model 3, but absolutely embarrasses anything Tesla makes.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdSusCDZcDg

Their world leading battery tech is much cheaper and last longer, as they bet on the right tech compared to basically every western car company. Their cars overall are much cheaper for equivalent or better quality. Their car companies are desperate to stand out given there are over 100 of them so produce wide ranges of extra features and designs.

But the battery is commodity technology, not a moat. There's not much stopping every other manufacturer from adopting the same thing.

And of course they are cheaper, they are selling in a market with much lower price capacity. They would not be nearly so cheap if they sold in the market like the US, so it is not sensible to compare prices as if they would.

For starters they can sell EVs at a profit, a feat which I believe only Tesla has managed among the US manufacturers.

Sure, but that's mostly an R&D vs time thing. All manufacturers go through a period of time where they are losing huge money as they build out the production capacity and develop their tech. Tesla went years without making money, as did BYD. The incumbents will get there eventually.

The incumbents had the same time the Chinese did, and more. They still couldn't do it. Now the Trump administration has effectively forced them out of the EV business. If you're not making EVs, you're not getting any better at making EVs. The best case scenario for US automakers now is that tariffs remain high post-Trump, and America becomes like Cuba or the former Yugoslavia, with people driving inferior cars to the rest of the world because that's all they have access to. But rest assured, at least the rich will be driving the finest Chinese EVs.

Having lived/worked in China for 6 years and knowing how most companies there operate and the way they cut corners so things look shiny on the outside but are crappy on the inside, I have very little confidence in any Chinese brand, especially not any of the newer brands. I would not buy a Chinese EV even at a lower price point.

There are a couple of exceptions to the above -- DJI and Anker are two companies I do trust -- but those are companies who have had a very strong focus on Western markets for years now, which forces them into a whole different level of QA. And they make much simpler products than EVs. Xiaomi _could_ potentially a trusted EV brand, they've been around a long time, tried to be the "Apple of China" and certainly came closer than other brands, but while I'd buy a phone from them I wouldn't buy a car from them.

So I lived and worked in China for 9+ years, I worked in a design studio for Microsoft and worked with many designers who, after the 2008-9 layoffs, went to help found Xiaomi.

Chinese brands 20 years ago (my first stint living in China was in 2002) were like Japanese brands 40-50 years ago. And now they are where Japanese brands were 20-30 years ago. Some of them are becoming serious competitors: robo-vacs, 3D printers, drones, heatpumps, cars...many of those categories they are basically the only players ATM.

Cars are an important point: a $10k BYD is basically a $10k car and nice enough for what you paid for. The higher end options seem ok as well, and are on par with what you would get in the US. You buy an EV for $60k in China, you'll get a bit less than what you get in the US due to higher luxury taxes, but not that much less (definitely not like it used to be where a nice car would cost $100k+).

Could? They are already much better for the price.

Chinese cars are good.

Even though they are tariffed as hell they often come as better to European counterparts here at similar pricing.

Apparently its quite simple to buy a BYD vehicle from Mexico and import it into the US already.

https://youtube.com/shorts/IEbl6RIJeDc?si=pNol1UkjxRwML9Dz

I suspect the same thing will happen for northern states buying from Canada!

This is entirely incorrect. You cannot permanently import or register a vehicle which has not undergone homologation. None of these vehicles have been certified to meet US safety standards and they cannot be imported permanently.

Your comment is also partially incorrect. Vehicles 25 years and older may be imported and registered regardless of safety standards or emissions.

https://www.help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1100?language=en_...

Nice ackchullay there, thank you for your contribution to the discussion. It is pretty clear that OP is referring to new cars based on context but hey who cares about context.

Please show me a list of 25+ year old BYD vehicles, or any EV for that matter.

Simple and legal are different matters. There's a BYD parked in my neighborhood pretty often (Central Texas) with Mexico plates. I have no idea how "permanent" it is, and yet there it is.

I live in southern Arizona. My next door neighbor is Mexican and also owns a BYD. Longest he can keep it here is 90 days:

https://www.help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1686

This x1000, I hope this really turns the screws on the US manufacturers, they need to hurt.

I suppose you realize the people running those manufacturing companies won't be hurt much at all, everyone who scrapes by trying to making a living work for them will hurt a lot when they get fired.

The vast majority of US auto jobs have already been lost to automation yet I don't hear you asking for those to come back in exchange for twice as expensive cars.

This is these companies own fault. These companies have grown cozy rent seeking with little competition and have completely missed the electrification of cars as a result. Cheaper cars will hurt those workers, but all of society will be better off when one of their largest expenses decreases.

Nothing gets cheaper. The bullwhip effect everyone kept evangelizing never happened. Between the housing crisis and the covid stimulus I’m not sure why anyone ever expected things to get cheaper, or expects it today.

This is pure propaganda.

Keep doing you, Canada.

The UAW endorsed the guy currently threatening to invade and annex Canada. Why would I care about them? They can all rot. No Chinese autoworker ever threatened me with invasion.

Really it’s the US government that it turns the screws on. China doesn’t need to comply with US regulations to produce their cars.

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