Hacker News Reader

Comment by palmotea | Hacker News Reader

> then the problem is on the republicans side to bring up better candidates.

Look: the Republicans are terrible, but Democrats have this bad habit of using that as an excuse to cover up their own shortcomings. They blame MAGA, blame Trump for not being better, instead of looking in the mirror and becoming a party that people like enough that it can win.

Any party that can't win handily against Trump, especially after all the scary warnings, is unfathomably incompetent and dysfunctional. IMHO a key part of that is that the party is beholden to ideologues on the far edge of the mainstream who keep it on a losing course.

For instance: we wouldn't be in this mess if "farm state Democrat" was a category that was still allowed to exist. I watched one of the last of those fall, and it appeared she was hemmed in by ideological out-of-state donors who prevented her from adapting to local conditions.

View on HN

But what if these "local conditions" are the actual problem?

The left has generally two sides, the intelletual and emphatic side and the identity politics side about gender, etc. The right has only identity politics, decorated with fabricated bullshit to have a clear enemy/outgroup.

The left has actual constructive suggestions for improvement while the right fear mongers about in/out groups.

The democrats in total are certainly not perfect, esp. the old guard, that mostly fails to oppose trump proportionally to his megalomania. But there are (young) democrats that are _clearly_ better candidates and the internal frictions (sanders, mamdani) to unsuccessfully suppress them by the donor class clearly shows you which party is less corrupt.

Intellectual leftists have the problem that realitys complexity works against them while right wingers can just summon the next boogeyman. Republican voters are _literaly_ programmed on their enemy stereotypes! "Extreme left", "marxist/socialist/communist", down to, "critical race theory", "war on christmas", etc. All these cheap negative labels get thrown around to terminate critical thought and vote as the tribe does. That is the actual problem to fix and it is on the right!

Today, dipshits still run around arguing, that "this is what i voted for", while poverty, healthcare, etc. are still the most pressing issues. As long as democracies somewhat reflect the populus, democracies cannot fail by definition. When the dipshits dont get their heads cleared and educate themsels, eg. about actual migrant crime rates and their economic contribution, _they will fall for the next populist with the simpler 'answers'._

> But what if these "local conditions" are the actual problem?

They are not. I thought we were defending democracy? "Adapting to local conditions" means representing your constituents, not kowtowing to some far off group and lecturing your constituents that they really should want want you're offering.

One of the Democrats' problems is, ironically, a lack of diversity.

> Republican voters are _literaly_ programmed on their enemy stereotypes!

That kind of othering thinking is a pretty serious problem. If you think in such an unempathetic way, you're going to delude yourself. Your side isn't all kindness and light, and their side isn't all hateful automatons. You are all people, for fucks sake. How the fuck different are you really? Actually not much.

Oh, I am talking about democracies and lecturing. You are right, i have to be very careful with my othering/stereotypes but given the current state of afairs, i think im in a strong position to do so. Trump would have never gotten my vote.

My take about democracies not failing meant, only the people in it can fail. There is certainly some civic due diligence for electoral decisions. My tribalism discerns between people who at least try to come to an educated decision and dipshits. Ask yourself, why putin might start to love _our_ democracies again.

You could easily be better represented by some outsider convincingly lecturing you on important topics you didnt know you should care about, if you just cared to listen and think.

> They blame MAGA, blame Trump for not being better, instead of looking in the mirror and becoming a party that people like enough that it can win.

Democrats should blame MAGA and Trump more. No amount of rational policy messaging will help against MAGA and Trump when you let them set the framing. All of this is caused by MAGA and Trump. Not by democrats. By republicans and especially conservatives.

It is ridiculous abuser logic to blame your immoral choices on opposition for not opposing you better. Right wing people, including farm people, should have own moral agency. They are not toddlers and yes they should be blamed.

> especially after all the scary warnings, is unfathomably incompetent and dysfunctional

None of that was scary to republicans and conservatives. They found the warning appealing.

> we wouldn't be in this mess if "farm state Democrat" was a category that was still allowed to exist. I watched one of the last of those fall, and it appeared she was hemmed in by ideological out-of-state donors who prevented her from adapting to local conditions.

Oh please. Yes we would, in fact we would be in the bigger mess. We would had two fascist parties instead of one.

The local conditions are: must hate and badmount cities at every occasion, must be attracted to violence, must have wish to mistreat liberals and everyone to the left of Trump. Because if farms voted by their economic interests, they would not voted for Trump. They voted for them because they share the values.

> Democrats should blame MAGA and Trump more. No amount of rational policy messaging will help against MAGA and Trump when you let them set the framing. All of this is caused by MAGA and Trump. Not by democrats. By republicans and especially conservatives.

Sorry, they've done that so much that people have become deaf to it.

> It is ridiculous abuser logic to blame your immoral choices on opposition for not opposing you better. Right wing people, including farm people, should have own moral agency. They are not toddlers and yes they should be blamed.

Thinking like yours is a big reason the Democrats lose. "Me, change to become more effective? Of course not! Here's some moralistic gesticulating to justify myself."

You basically want to lean all in on negative campaigning. But bashing the other side doesn't cause people to support you. However, it's a really seductive option when you're unpopular and refuse to change. It's not a strategy, it's a cope.

> Oh please. Yes we would, in fact we would be in the bigger mess. We would had two fascist parties instead of one.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Despite your intentions, you're probably helping MAGA more than you hurt it.

> Sorry, they've done [critizing trump] so much that people have become deaf to it.

You switched again! From "dems do too little" to "they actually do too much"! And the best part: by talking about the quantity and theater around it, you dont have to face the content. Even when the message doesnt get amplified by billionares and distributed to their usefull idiots, that critizism about trump might still be very relevant and valid! NO MATTER HOW MUCH REP. THINK 'UFF, HEARD THIS BEFORE'!

> Thinking like yours is a big reason the Democrats lose

> You basically want to lean all in on negative campaigning

Dude, Trump is the one who ran with deportation! Precisely because he has no better constructive vision! I EXPLAINED IT TO YOU IN ANOTHER ANSWER, THAT THIS IS THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BT. THE PARTIES. Conservatives only have their identity politics and thus is constructing and enemy (migrants, antifa, liberals) THEIR ONLY SHTICK!

And because FoxNews and social media has grilled your brain so well, no matter what we "other" people say in response, in your head, it will be wrong. This entire subthread is just another case of insanity.

You cant imagine how frustrating this is. Conservatives need to grow an f'ing spine and oppose trump too, but reading your ad-hoc, brain-off replies ...

> You switched again! From "dems do too little" to "they actually do too much"!

Sorry to deny you your gotcha, but I haven't: they've done too much of some things, and far too little of the right things. It's not a one-dimensional axis of "doing."

> And because FoxNews and social media has grilled your brain so well [emphasis mine]

Weren't you the user I was talking to about othering? You're doing it again, and injecting your stereotypes without any kind of basis.

Just so you know: pretty much the only news media I consume is the New York Times.

> no matter what we "other" people say in response, in your head, it will be wrong. This entire subthread is just another case of insanity.

You're projecting. I'm well aware what you're saying, but I don't think you're being rational or realistic. You appear to be angry in-general and reaching for ideas that primarily indulge that anger and its biases.

> You cant imagine how frustrating this is. Conservatives need to grow an f'ing spine and oppose trump too, but reading your ad-hoc, brain-off replies ...

Speaking of brain-off replies... I think you need to step back and calm down. It appears you're thinking in a very black and white way, and jumping to the conclusion that someone who doesn't agree with you on strategy or tactics is a member of your "opposing team."

And I probably sound like a broken record, but thinking like yours is a big reason the Democrats lose. It's kinda Trumps superpower: he scrambles Democrats' brains, clouding their judgement, preventing effective responses (in addition on their pre-existing biases in that direction).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com