Comment by prmoustache | Hacker News Reader

Comment by prmoustache | Hacker News Reader

Main issue is having a parking space with a charger and/or having to pay for it, and price of the new e-motorcycles.

Charging on the side of the road is a no go with motorcycles. I can fill my tank in a few seconds, I wouldn't want to wait more. Until I had a way to charge in an indoor space the only e-motorcycle I considered was the Silence S02 which has a removable battery that you can move as a trolley luggage. But it is still heavy, if you have stairs to climb which was my case until very recently: game over.

I looked at the market to replace my motorcycle, a 300cc scooter, now that I have an indoor parking space where I could in theory install a charger. Most japanese brands are very timid, honda only produces a 50cc equivalent. BMW and Kawasaki are expensive as is Zero motorcycle. To my knowledge Suzuki or Yamaha do not produce any.The rest are mostly chinese brands and many of them are using pretty much scaled up e-bicycle technology with motor in the hub and more importantly zero reliability/service record. And you pay the price of a 125 to get the performance and size of a 50cc moped.

So basically you have the choice between trusted brands and reliable gas powered bikes or do a leap of faith with no insurance that it won't be a shitshow like the aliexpress/amazon e-bike batteries that randomly catch fire. On paper electric stuff should be more reliable but well maintained 125cc bikes tend to be rock solid.

The reason why there are now quite a lot of these things in India (and all over Asia) is that the challenges you cite are in practice not that big of a deal:

- for most people these things are transportation tools, not toys. Performance doesn't really matter all that much. In a big Indian city, the maximum speed is determined by the highly congested traffic, not the performance of the ebike. Going fast is fun but not that essential.

- Many people primarily charge at home, inside their home if needed or remove the battery and charge that inside.

- Unless you drive more than 40/50km, the charge is generally good enough for a full day. And for more intensive use, there are bikes with bigger batteries. Or you can swap in a spare battery.

- If it's not enough for the day, you can charge anywhere there is a wall socket. Unlike cars, people don't tend to use specialized chargers for ebikes. That's pretty much anywhere. You might have to pay for the privilege in some places. But plug it in during your lunch break or whenever you have a gap and you are good to go probably.

- We're talking about less than half a kwh for most ebikes for a full charge. It's not going to break the bank. Charging is really, really cheap.

- Fuel is not cheap. A large part of Asia is still on incomes where that price difference matters; even though especially India has a rather large middle and upper class as well these days. The cost aspect really matters.

Those cheap bikes you are complaining about: they are really cheap. And they kind of work. That's why people are buying these things by the millions now.

Among all these various factors, not once do you mention the wellbeing of other people. It is not hyperbole to observe that combustion scooters are a scourge on the physical health and mental sanity of a billion Indians.

While I agree, that's a present devil meaning that it's already an accepted way of life. I'm curious how Gogoro's model of swapping batteries would fair in the denser Indian markets.

Depends region to region.

Once outside Tier 1 cities, density significantly reduces. Additionally, the Indian consumer is aspirational, and if forced to purchase a new vehicle would prefer a used car over a new 2-wheeler.

Anecdotally, in my ancestral village, my relatives preferred buying a used Maruti Suzuki for 1 Lakh (roughly $1k) instead of spending the equivalent amount on a new bike.

In the Vietnamese side of my family, everyone is ignoring the recent diktat to upgrade to electronic motorbikes for the same reason (why spend almost a year's income to purchase a vehicle when inflation for daily staples has been high)

I feel there is an opportunity for EV cars, but they face stiff competition from Kei/900-1100cc cars that cost around $4k-8k.

Sadly the wellbeing of other people is rarely a factor people take into account.

Probably 1 billion+ people in India have to prioritize their own (and their kids') well being, such as securing shelter, food, clean water, and safe transportation.

It's a luxury to be able to think about others' well being, especially for something with very slow, long term effects. It's a luxury to even be able to think about your own well being for things that have slow, long term effects.

Not a luxury, a wisdom. Often the biggest shackles are our minds.

I got to bike around Bhubaneswar, the capital of Odisha, in India in 2017, well before this revolution. When you look at it from an outsider's perspective it looks like chaos and I went in with my typical American mindset, hustling my way through the throngs of bikes, pedestrians, mopeds, autos, dogs, and cows.

Once I fell into the natural flow of the system the experience was much more smooth. There's an organic cadence that reminded me of red blood cells bumping around inside capillaries.

I wonder how the spike in e2W use has affected that cadence.

Nothing much to be honest.

The occasional idiot who would zoom past everyone dangerously on their new powerful and expensive toy is replaced by the idiot who loves to show off the new found torque on their ev bike.

The only difference is before you would've heard the idiot sneaking up. Now, its a lot more silent and dangerous.

With respect, this feels to me like romantic paternalism. As a cosseted European I spent two months crossing India a couple of years back. I travelled only by train, bus and on foot. No taxis at all, even rickshaws I mostly avoided. I experienced urban India much as average Indians experience it. Well, two months was more than enough.

I definitely didn't mean for it to come across like that, but that's how it impacted you, so there's something to what you said that I'll think about. What was your take on urban travel in India then?

I've seen someone in China charge using a cable dangling out a window, so I think charging infrastructure doesn't necessarily have to be an issue if you're willing to settle for the minimum viable option.

I've seen that in France as well but honestly this is not applicable if you live in an appartment in a multistory building.

> Main issue is having a parking space with a charger and/or having to pay for it

Agree. New apartments in metros are coming up with shared charging spaces but the supposed cost benefit of owning ev is offset by high prices at these chargers. Also as ev adoption grows, you are only looking at more competition in the future for these limited charging slots. Builders for logistical reasons or out of just pure greed are really not keen on allowing installation of charging points at own parking spots.

This seems to be one of the main challenges to overcome even for those who are willing to adopt an ev vehicle.

> Most japanese brands are very timid, honda only produces a 50cc equivalent.

I believe Honda's CUV-e is 125cc equivalent. They plan to release more electric mopeds / motorcycles in the coming years too, from what I've read. I can try to find sources if you want.

Re charging, the Gogoro “swap and go” battery charging network looks really cool. You can swap the battery over in seconds. No need for a charger at home.

https://www.gogoro.com/

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