Hacker News Reader

Comment by drakenot | Hacker News Reader

I think that’s more a critique of the modern caricature of stoicism than of Stoicism itself. Classical Stoicism isn’t about suppressing emotions. It’s about understanding your emotions, examining where they come from, and choosing how you respond rather than being ruled by them.

View on HN

I think this is the most concisely accurate description of Stoicism I've yet seen; well done.

Also it's about learning to distinguish between stuff we can influence vs stuff we cannot. Like I cannot influence if the sun rises tomorrow or not, so there's not point in worrying about it

understanding, examining and choosing are all thinking based. and that's why stoicism isn't really working well for humans. emotions are neuropsychologically lower level than thoughts/logic/ratio. having said that, lectures about stoicism might well be excellent instructions for language models on how to handle communication with humans.

It's more to separate the feeling from the reaction to the feeling by a layer of understanding & examination. Feel first, understand the feeling, examine whether the feeling is appropriate for the situation that caused it, determine how to react, react. It's an OODA loop applied to one's own emotions: Observe the feeling, Orient on the situation, Decide on a response, Act as decided. If you pre-decide to always suppress any reaction you're missing the point. Stoicism is quite similar to modern Cognitive Behavior Therapy. If you just react without thinking you'll often react to your learned habits rather than the actual situation at hand.

The realization of emerging emotions by cultivating mindfulness. I mean this is basically also what various practices/exercises in (Zen) Buddhism aim at. But I'd argue that the practical methodology advertised by Stoicism is too ratio based to be effective beyond a basic . I would rather put my money on more indirect approaches like classic mindfulness exercises and meditation. They are less goal oriented by design, but the axiom (which I accept from experience and observation) is that a healthy mind will be expressing stoic virtues naturally without knowing how to call it.

Part of practicing Stoicism is to bring emotions up to the understanding, examining, and choosing level. You still have emotions, but you don't let them control you.

I love JiuJitsu because many parts of it are like microcosms of life. The first time someone lays on you and you feel like you can't breath, you panic. That's an emotion. After a few times you realize you can breath and eventually you will feel the panic and instead of succumbing, it'll wash past you. By practicing feeling emotions, especially negative ones like being uncomfortable over and over, eventually they move into your higher level thinking and no longer control you. You absolutely still have them, but your reaction to them has changed.

I would actually argue that the sensation from experiencing asphyxiation is not really an emotion but instead one of the most fundamental sensations any life form will experience. Just saying as I already argued that ratio is a layer above emotions. Having said that, Jujutsu (as well as all forms of martial arts and sports) are intertwined with emotional experience and needs. Jujutsu for example is probably one of the best physical therapies for adults to overcome fear of non-sexual physical contact. Also the whole idea around fighting other people in your spare time draws its inspiration from a desire to externalize negative emotions which are either too abstract or too challenging to address in a mental reflection process.

Keep in mind, you’re not actually asphyxiating in this case. It’s just uncomfortable to have someone in your space, feeling closed in, etc… it’s all emotion.

Thats different from actually being choked and tapping to end the fight.

Also, BJJ has been one of the biggest unlocks in my personal growth and stoicism journey. Things that used to make me uncomfortable or annoy me in daily simply don’t. I’m not externalizing my negative emotions, I’ve just become better at dealing with them through repeated challenges. Early on my teacher told me that everyone loses, but the difference between white and black belts is the black will be calm thinking how to escape until the very end. Contrast the white belt who loses control and flails around accomplishing nothing.

And now that I've read that the second time, this is very close to various kinds of therapy.

For example, anxiety exists and sometimes occurs, and it means parts of me are trying to be very careful and precise about something. This can be a problem at times if it overcomes you, but it can also be leveraged into a strength once you figure why it's flaring up at the moment.

Another example, travel used to be a nuisance, but now I've setup and continue refining some packing and preparation checklists for trips of varying length. Now it's a big no-brainer to be well-prepared for a short work-trip and I'm usually very calm about it.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com