Surface Pricing Announced - $499 USD | Hacker News Reader

Surface Pricing Announced - $499 USD

microsoft.com

87 pointscodelion107 comments

More competition to Apple/Android is good for us. I'm surprised such a techy crowd isn't jumping on the opportunity to try out new tech.

I just pre-ordered mine and I'm stoked!

I for one really like the idea in terms of hardware, but my bad experiences with the RC of Windows 8 convinced me to not bother.

Same here. Besides, people are buying not tablets, they are buying ecosystems. Apple has the great one. Same with Amazon. Same with Google. What mobile ecosystem does Microsoft have? Very limited at this point. And virtually no apps for Windows RT.

I disagree. Browser, Office, and a keyboard make a pretty compelling argument for lots of people. All they really need is a Facebook app (which is integrated into the People Hub) and it's what most people will really want. Then they also have Messages (doesn't include GTalk, but different people use different things. A lot of the world prefers MSN Messenger over AIM for instance. And many people use FB Chat and Skype. It's not excusing MS for not having GTalk, but it does cover lots of use-cases and peole)

It is not clear how the display quality is going to compare with IPad 3. I'm hoping to preview one (at a MS store maybe?) before deciding.

Battery: iPad 42.5-watt-hour clearly mentioning browsing time (its called confidence on your quality) Surface RT 31.5-watt-hour Pro 42-watt-hour

WiFi+Cellular: iPad Yep Surface WiFi only

Weight: iPad 1.44lbs to 1.46lbs Surface RT 1.5lbs and Pro 2.0lbs

Applications: iPad Rock solid platform unified Surface Choose between RT and Pro messed up ARM and x86

For me I think Microsoft has done same mistake again, introduce "complexity" and if you look closely they are actually selling you a "not a gorgeous quality stuff" for same price as iPad. I don't see Microsoft dominating the market! Just getting a market douche on stage that makes you hear sound of click with no quality in product pisses me off!

Not to mention they are trying to sit between netbooks, laptops and tablets and they ship a USB 2.0 in 2012! DUH Microsoft!

I think this is the nail on the already-likely-dead coffin of MS Surface. What's the market they are going after???

"tablet market"? nope - already dominated by iPad

"enterprise"? nope - 1) not a market, 2) already dominated by iPad

"budget"? nope - priced on par with iPad

seriously, how are they going to push this thing? they don't have a channel like Apple nor Amazon, so they need to rely on all their other paths.

they should've called this "XPad", made it a mobile Xbox, and sold through that channel - just like they did with Kinect.

fail fail fail.

> they should've called this "XPad"

Can't. Apple owns all Pads.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/13/steve-jobs-apple-owns-pad-tra...

Microsoft could buy Always and re-purpose the Maxi-pad brand.

No because that trademark does not extend to computing devices.

They have a couple of markets they can go after pretty easily.

  * Gaming.  It's fairly easy to port games between Xbox and Windows, and this
    device has been shown to integrate nicely with Xbox.  Whether that's enough
    is anyone's guess, but it hardly seems like a hail-mary pass at this point
    to me.
  * Enterprise.  I do not actually see what you're seeing, at least here in New
    York, that enterprise tablets either don't exist, or are dominated by iPad.
    I've seen mostly laptops still, plus some iPads, some Xooms and other Android
    tablets, and even some Blackberry PlayBooks.  This market is not exactly a
    done deal for anyone at this point, and the level to which Office is
    entrenched in the corporate space gives Windows RT a real chance.

I'm not saying that the Surface will nail these markets, but you're being odd to discount them so quickly.

The gaming market would seem to be out, since Windows RT devices can only run apps distributed through the Windows App Store, and the Windows App Store refuses to carry any games rated as containing mature content (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/11/windows-8-marketp...).

In other words, no matter how easy they would be to port, you couldn't make versions of Skyrim, Borderlands 2, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, or Resident Evil 6 to run on Windows RT, simply because Microsoft will not allow you to sell them to Windows RT users. All those titles have content ratings higher than MS will allow for distribution through the App Store.

Ruling out AAA titles feels like a pretty severe blow to any ambitions WinRT might have to be a gamer's OS. Which isn't to say they won't sell games for it; just that it won't be games driving the sales of WinRT devices.

You have a good point, but I've been assuming that Microsoft would drop their refusal to allow mature content, at least for big-title games, if any of the game studios expressed serious interest in porting to Windows RT to begin with. We'll have to see. If I'm wrong, then I'm with you: Windows RT will never be the gamer's mobile platform. But I assume that they'll yield as soon as there's a real reason to do so.

Where it gets screwy in my mind is whether Windows RT still has a shot at being a major casual gaming platform, in the style of iOS. Android, iOS, webOS, and I believe PlayBook all use OpenGL ES. Windows RT (and Windows 8 Phone) only offer DirectX. It's not that it's even that difficult to target both; it's simply that no one has yet done so, because the only meaningful mobile platforms run OpenGL ES. This puts Windows RT and Windows 8 Phone into a very chicken-and-egg position for casual gaming, and I'm not clear that it can win that one.

I'm sure this project is going to get a lot of use; As a supported of free software, I would have been much happier if this was GPLd or at least LGPLd. Alas, it's BSD license, which means that it's going to help the Win8RT echosystem tremendously :(

https://code.google.com/p/angleproject/

ANGLE: Almost Native Graphics Layer Engine. The goal of ANGLE is to allow Windows users to seamlessly run WebGL and other OpenGL ES 2.0 content by translating OpenGL ES 2.0 API calls to DirectX 9 API calls.

That's not entireially true. The App store 18+ isn't the same as ESRB mature but ESRB AO+.

>> Apps with a rating over PEGI 16, ESRB MATURE, or a corresponding rating under other ratings systems as described in the table below, are not allowed.

src http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh69408...

I was going off the PEGI ratings -- all the titles I cited are PEGI 18.

i expect that's not region sensitive either. in the UK the BBFC classified Skyrim as a 15.

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/ClassifiedWorks...

eta: although that now seems to be merely a historical curiosity, since the BBFC no longer rates games - we use PEGI instead.

Imagine if all other car makers said "Oh, the car market is already taken by Ford. We should do something else".

Ha, said much more eloquently than I would. I think it is odd that people are automatically dismissing it simply because it is not an iPad. I guess that is how the hive mind works now-a-days. I like the Surface because it is a genuinely unique OS. And, in many ways it is better than Apple's offering. The gestures are better, it surfaces information better, and it works much better as a productivity device. When has better become not good enough?

better is rarely enough. the biggest killer of "great" products? ones that are "good enough".

Terrible analogy - there's a proven market for cars.

At this point, it's pretty hard to prove there is a market for non-iPad tablets that aren't e-readers...

It's not a terrible analogy. Think if they said that right after the Model T came out.

That would be true IF after the model T came out there was no evidence that the rest of the population was interested in buying cars. But instead it turned out that everyone wanted a car.

For MS, or Google, or anyone to really play in the space, they need to get ahead of Apple, not catch up.

Personally, I'm going to be buying one of these tablets, they look pretty powerful and cool, plus I prefer Microsoft offerings over Apple.

They don't need to own a particular market, sure it helps, but personally, I couldn't care less how much it costs or how powerful it is, I would buy one of these just so I didn't have to buy an iPad.

So to be honest, I think at least one market which this tablet will dominate is the "fuck you Apple" market.

> So to be honest, I think at least one market which this tablet will dominate is the "fuck you Apple" market.

Sorry, this is already a crowded market - Android rules here, whether it's Google or Amazon shipping the product. Why would I buy this when I can get a Kindle Fire 4G with $50/yr mobile data? Why would I pay $300 more than a Nexus7?

Microsoft has lost the forest for the trees - so bound up in hating and trying to produce an "iPad Killer" that they don't realize the competition is way ahead of them.

"the world"? nope - already dominated by iPad

Seriously, the tablet market is still wide open. having an iPad3, iOS is only good for a small portion of things I would like a Tablet can do

It appears they are using Vapor deposition of Magnesium to make the body. I hope it is just a texture on the outside. If anything could escalate the problem of a combusting battery, it would be a metal that ignites at 480°C and burns at up to 3000°C.

Edit: this reminds me of the NeXTCube. http://simson.net/hacks/cubefire.html

Pro version have USB 3 and mini display port. It is a nice combo of mobility and ease like iPad + power like a laptop. It is a full blown mobile machine. Ipad, android are just content consuming devices. You can't do much on them besides just absorbing content. I am glad MS understood the missing features from ipad and came with this beautiful product.

> You can't do much on them besides just absorbing content…

… and writing, drawing, painting, designing, composing and playing music, editing spreadsheets and databases, building presentations, taking photos, editing photos, emailing, chatting, editing movies, and so on.

Yep. Only for watching YouTube. You bet.

Won't compete with iPad on quality. Won't compete with Android on price.

Why should anyone buy this?

Defend your first argument.

I reckon he'd make a history based approach. Never seen a Gateway circa 2000 run Mac software. But eh, I'm not him, no so idea to be honest.

Because it has a tablet form factor and UI but can also run desktop apps?

That's not true of the RT version. It's an ARM tablet.

This article from The Verge does a good job explaining how much of the focus of the Surface was making sure it had quality hardware. I don't think you can say it won't compete with the iPad on quality, until you use it. "Everything is perfected and tested in Redmond using in-house machines, many of which were invented so they could invent the Surface, and later-stage models are sent to China for more massive production. The company uses the exact same 3D and laser printers as its factories in China, so its designs are certain to be translated perfectly into mass production — though even that didn't satisfy the design team, which has made as many as ten trips to China this year alone."

"The hinge on the Surface's built-in kickstand may have been the device's most discussed feature during our tour in Redmond. Microsoft has obsessed over how the kickstand works, how it looks, even how it sounds..."

"At 3mm thick, it's almost hard to believe there's room to fit a working keyboard inside the cover — Panay liked to talk about how the team's goal was for the Touch Cover to be 4.2mm thick, and they did even better."

"At one point we stood in a testing room, where five different Touch Covers were having their hinges tested by a machine that twisted back and forth every second or so. As the Covers furled and unfurled, we watched a 36-inch drop test, the Surface crashing onto its right side. No one flinched as the Surface fell, and Panay even said he's more worried about denting the wood floor than the Surface (we'll test that one for ourselves). While our backs were turned looking at the next test, Sinofsky grabbed a Surface that had four green wheels attached to the bottom, and hopped on board. He's apparently quite the skateboarder."

"The first screen size Microsoft seriously considered was 10.1 inches, the de facto standard for tablets today. But 10.1 inches didn't work well for multitasking, and it wasn't wide enough for a full-sized keyboard. So the company tried 11.1 inches — typing was great, as was multitasking, but Panay said "it really missed on the tablet experience." So Microsoft split the difference, and found 10.6 inches was the right size. The 10.6-inch Surface is comfortable to hold, Panay said, and "when you set your hands down in typing position, you can have a great experience.""

http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/16/3511002/microsoft-surface...

Won't compete with iPad on quality. Won't compete with Android on price. Why should anyone buy this?

-Because Microsoft has its slimy tentacles in your corporate IT purchasing process and this is the only tablet they'll buy for you.

-Because it runs the real Microsoft version of Word and Excel and therefore when you share files around the office and they don't show up the same on every machine, you can blame Microsoft instead of catching blame yourself.

-Because Microsoft will pay your company $X0,000 dollars to have you develop a half-baked version of your iOS apps for it.

-Your vision is terrible anyway and you can't even tell that the crappy screen is still a blurry low-res mess.

The "Touch Cover", which I'm assuming is the bit with the keyboard, will run you an extra $100-120. Given the attention to the Touch Cover in the promotional material MS has distributed, I'm surprised that it's even optional.

No 3G at all? Zune all over again.

I don't mind this so much presuming it can do Bluetooth tethering with my phone [vs WiFi due to power usage issues]. If I'm the device's user, I'll likely have my phone with me, so having a redundant radio in the device doesn't add value. And, if I let someone else use the device while I'm not around, the likelihood is that there will be an available WiFi source.

I'd like it-just-works connectivity between my phone and any other devices I carry with me. Right now, I have to hit a couple buttons on both devices -- a pain for short-term usage scenarios.

I can get tethering to work, my mom: never. My parents both got iPads and a device that isn't just online all the time could never ever work for them. iPad really set the bar on that one.

Yeah. Tethering still is too mysterious. If it's not working, which device is at fault? For awhile (pre-ICS), my Droid RAZR had a bug where it required a reboot before the hotspot would work. Of course, it failed silently and claimed to be making itself available!

The thing about it-just-works connectivity is that it will generally halve battery life on a smartphone. You basically have to keep the radios constantly on and scanning for known connections.

I know little about Bluetooth 4 except that it's supposed to be low power. Could it be used to "scan" for interested/allowed devices and then "step-up" to a higher power, higher bandwidth connection?

Apple sells a lot more WiFi iPads than it does 3G iPads. Best data I could find on a quick google is admittedly almsot a year old, but:

90% of the tablets use WiFi only (some have inactivated cellular chipset) meaning that only 10% of the tablets (as of Q4 2011) were cellular activated. Operators who start to bundle multiple devices by single data plans and data buckets are going to see a better yield in this category. We expect family data plans to be introduced in the US market soon.

Source: http://www.chetansharma.com/USmarketupdate2011.htm

I see that price point as being too high. I think 399 USD would be right in that sweet spot (especially considering this will be considered a poor Ipad substitute in the beginning).

What people in this thread are missing is that Microsoft isn't trying to capture the entire WinRT market with this device, they're not trying to outsell their partners, they're trying to set a benchmark. Something for their partners to compete against, and for those partners to compete against it (and the iPad) successfully.

The point of Surface is to keep Asus, HP, Samsung, etc from making a not-quite-iPad for $700 and blogs mocking the demise of the platform. Basically, if WinRT partners cannot outsell the Surface, they don't deserve to be selling Windows tablets. That is what Microsoft is implying with this release. Making it impossible to compete against would actively destroy that effort.

No, I fully understand the claim that Microsoft has designed this and set the price point to encourage an ecosystem to stay afloat. Yet, Microsoft has done fine in a number of hardware spheres without serious competition (e.g. XBox--1, maybe 1.5 competitors between Sony and Nintendo).

I remain skeptical that the better good is the underlying motivation.

If it was a little less, I'd probably buy this. I'm a huge fan of Windows 8 (don't get me wrong: it's going to be horrendous for regular users, but as a techie, I think it's a really nice UI). $500 though is just too much for something that is so easily dismissed. I'd pay that much for an iPad or a Macbook because I know they will be well built and work well. Surface has to prove itself to me and as of yet, it hasn't shown me why I should spend that much on it.

There are going to be x86 Windows 8 tablets coming out that run all your windows programs ever. A lot of people are going to be pissed and confused about 2 different versions of windows with entirely different sets of compatibility. Also x86 tables will probably cheaper, just like netbooks, just to pour some salt in your wounds you got buying an expensive device that runs no programs.

I don't think anybody's expecting x86 tablets to be cheaper than Surface. But I agree that the situation has potential for lots of customer confusion.

If they're going to be cheaper, they are also going to be ridiculously slow compared to the iPad (and possibly the ARM Win8), or they are going to have ridiculously short battery life, or they are going to be subsidized by Microsoft (or all of the above ....)

Have you seen a netbook that can deliver 9 hours of real usage on Windows _and_ run at a reasonable speed (for $500, or even more)? I haven't. And the laptops that can are larger and much more expensive.

From what I have seen both the x86 and ARM perform on par with the iPad and have 9+ hours of battery life. I think you are just making stuff up now.

I am making it up that I couldn't find a notebook with ipad comparable snappy response times and ipad comparable battery time? I'm not saying I'm all-knowing and that I survey every single piece of hardware that ever goes on sale everywhere, but I did spend considerable time looking for a Windows one (I needed it for a product I'm selling, and ended up with a $2200 HP notebook instead! and it has less than 6 hours of useful battery life!), and came up empty.

If you know of such a notebook, please let me know. As they say, put up or shut up.

x86 Windows 8 tablets coming out that run all your windows programs ever

They'll run all of your Windows 8 programs, not all of your Windows programs, since Windows 8 apparently drops some functionality like IFilter.[1] I'm somewhat surprised I haven't seen articles detailing stuff that doesn't work under Windows 8, but maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention.

[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms691105(v=VS.85).as... "Indexing Service is no longer supported as of Windows XP and is unavailable for use as of Windows 8."

Should mention in your title that it's $499 for the USD model. $499 doesn't really tell much about it and making comparisons to iPads are difficult given the lowest iPad is $499 for 16 GB.

It should also be noted that Office is coming pre-installed. Which is awesome given the pricing.

Does anyone know if this can be used for development and graphics editing? Or if it will run Windows Desktop apps?

I could almost see something like this replacing my everyday work computer.

It runs Windows RT, meaning that existing Windows apps won't run on it. You'll need to buy Metro apps from Windows app store, which are not plenty these days. Bottom line: no editing, no programming tools and only preview of Microsoft Office at this time.

It will not run Windows Desktop Apps.

What you are looking for is Surface Pro which will be available in a few months. Or you could buy any one of the Windows 8 (not Windows RT) convertible tablets/hybrids that will be available from the likes of Lenovo, HP, Acer, Asus, Samsung, etc after Windows 8 launches.

The Windows RT version of the Surface is a consumption device. I feel like the primary use cases are reading, movies, web, e-mail and so on. You'll have to wait for the x86 version of the Surface if you're looking to do graphics editing.

Surface I thought was going to be a bit cheaper, but I think Microsoft occasionally makes good software.

So will this be able to run standard Window's programs or just tablet versions of software? If it could run Windows applications then this could be a great alternative to ultrabooks, with the added perk of the flexibility of a tablet.

The Surface is running Windows RT, so the tablet versions of software. The Surface Pro (which doesn't have pricing info yet) will be x86 and therefore run standard Windows programs.

Also, doesn't have a GPS, so only WiFi location services...

Any idea of international pricing?

499USD will most probably translate into 499GBP unfortunately

399 pounds in Britain, 479 Euros in Germany and 489 in France.

What is the resolution?

From AnandTech (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6377/inside-microsofts-surface...): 1366x768.

I haven't been able to find any credible information about resolutions but the rumors seem to point toward less than retina.

But the flip side of that is most of the Windows 8 interface is rectangles with large type. You don't need very high resolution devices to make that style of interface look crisp and sharp.

I applaud Microsoft for doing something new-- the new windows UI is very original. Further, they have managed to meet Apple in terms of pricing for a comparable iPad, something others have struggled with.

But the big take-away innovation here, and the center of their marketing campaign, is that it has a keyboard cover.

This seems to be about 5 years out of sync. 5 years ago, everyone expected the iPhone to fail because it didn't have a physical keyboard like the blackberry.

But after I got my first iPad, the original, I found that I could type at nearly the same speed (possibly faster due to autocorrect) on its on screen keyboard as I can at a regular keyboard... my finger just go to the place the key is, and while feeling a physical key would be nice, the end result on the iPad was about the same speed.

I think this will sell well into markets that are heavily invested in microsoft infrastructure... but I don't see how it is going to take marketshare from the iPad.

----

Edit to clarify, since several have responded on this point:

I'm not saying that keyboards have no use. I recognize that many people buy an extra keyboard for their iPad, and prefer that for significant typing.

The point I'm making is what is the differentiating feature here? The UI is different, true, but then its the keyboard.

There are two keyboard covers- one is flat, with no keys which I suspect would be much like typing on the iPAd screen (though of course, not actually on the screen... so a little different) and the other has keys, so similar to buying an external keyboard for the iPAd, only it is slightly more integrated.

Is that really compelling? Compared to buying a wireless keyboard for the iPad, the price is about the same (or cheaper for the iPad).... and the advantage of the Surface is that the keyboard connects to the tablet with magnets?

I just don't see that as being significant enough to really take significant share away from Apple. That's all I was saying.

I think this will sell well into markets that are heavily invested in microsoft infrastructure

These are the Windows RT tablets (ARM-based). Presumably a lot of Windows x86 software won't have ARM versions, so I'm not sure these will be popular even among the Microsoft shops.

Corporate road warriors that need to access the same Office systems the rest of the home-base grunts use.

Let's see if it's actually the same Office. The versions of Office that I got to play with on WinMobile * and WinPhone7 were not on par with Word on windows, or even OpenOffice of the time.

(For all I know, it might still be the best available word processor for tablets; I have never used Apple's "Pages"; but previous versions were ... lacking)

The Office apps that come with the Surface are the real deal. It's the Home and Student version according to the web site.

It's Office RT, whatever that means. I tried to follow the link to the description http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/home-and-student/office-ho... - but on my Linux/Firefox combination, it shows nothing. Perhaps it's a silverlight thing, but the HTML is so messed up that I wasn't able to see if it was.

Way to go Microsoft!

Maybe its just you, I've seen so many iPad owners spend extra 100-200$ just for an extra keyboard and cover. Your needs are well-served by the inbuilt keyboard, so you don't need an extra attachment. But for many others, a physical keyboard solves various problems.

The MS surface keyboard is an extra $100 (if you buy them together; $120 if you buy independently)

For anyone who types fast, a physical keyboard is far faster than the ipad on-screen keyboard.

I'm not sure if that will translate to marketshare for the surface, however.

> But after I got my first iPad, the original, I found that I could type at nearly the same speed

Speed is certainly one issue, but the ergonomics of typing for an extended period favor separate screen and keyboard components. I too use a table for typing and while I'm pretty quick at it, I can't find a comfortable position that lets me do this for more than half an hour at a time. For this reason alone, the inclusion of a keyboard has certainly made me take notice of Microsoft's offering.

Using either the Bluetooth wireless keyboard or the keyboard dock on the iPad makes it into quite a capable notebook alternative.

It's also what you're used to. Some people can T9 pretty darned fast because of experience.

The included keyboard is definitely better than an on-screen one for human factors, but is it good enough to not be in the trough where an on-screen keyboard is more available (no keyboard-cover needed) and a full-size physical keyboard/mouse?

Personally, I think there is some traction in the Transformer style tablet - but the surface cover seems gimmicky. We'll have to see - if it works, I'll be thrilled.

This is the opposite of the selling the first laptop problem - some people won't take a device seriously unless it has a physical keyboard. It isn't about the quality of on-screen keyboards, it's about the perception of the accessory. These people see electronics as toys unless they have that one accessory.

> they have managed to meet Apple in terms of pricing for a comparable iPad

No 3G / LTE.

I don't think the $500 iPad has 3G?

Correct, it's $529: http://store.apple.com/us/buy/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad/ipa...

Note: I haven't kept up the specs etc.

That's the iPad 2. If it's comparable to the Surface, then your point is valid.

The cheapest iPad 3 with 3G costs $629.

And while YMMV, I don't require 3G on my tablet. I already have 3G on my phone, which is always in my pocket, and I can create a personal hotspot if reqd.

My point was that it's comparable to Surface: similar HW specs, no Retina display. iPad 3 offers more hence it's pricier. I simply don't see why anyone except Microsoft Office users (in 2013;-) would prefer Surface to iPad 3.

In what way is the Surface RT more comparable to the iPad 2 and not the iPad 3.

The new iPad has a Retina display but beyond that ? (I'm talking about hardware)

You can't even buy an iPad 2 with more than 16GB anymore.

"The new iPad has a Retina display but beyond that ? (I'm talking about hardware)" For a tablet form factor, one can argue that a fantastic display plays an enormous role in the user experience.

That is the iPad 2 however. The New iPad with cellular starts at $629USD.

That's the 16 GB model. The surface has 32 GB. The version of the iPad with 32GB and 3G is $729.

You can't get 3G/4G on the Surface at any price. How mobile is that? Hotspot/cellphone-tether needed? - not going to work for some users.

Since it has USB ports and runs Windows you can just plug in an aircard for either 3G or 4G and have that coverage.

The ipad software keyboard is hard to use for any length of time because you have to switch between several virtual layouts to hit every key.

It slows you down if you're writing code instead of English words.

Having punctuation characters hidden away probably reduces the overall complexity of people's passwords as well. I strongly suspect that people switch to alphanumeric-only passwords for anything they would enter into an ipad/iphone keyboard.

Typical post of an outlier who thinks they are the typical user targeted by Apple. If anyone thinks that Apple designed the keyboard and neglected to optimize it for people writing code is a dope.

I'll put the people that would never buy anything without an SD or MicroSD card slot. Again, useful but to a very small and select group of users.

I wish people here (supposedly smart and intelligent folks) would have the common sense to put themselves into the shoes of a TYPICAL user and make their comments relevant to that viewport.

As a bilingual the autocorrect is the bane of my existence. I depend on it but I find myself constantly changing the language... I wished that iOS could switch languages contextually for me.

I don't use autocorrect, but the spelling correction language switches with the keyboard language. Just add your other languages keyboard layouts and swith to the keyboard layout of the language you type in.

I see this being a strong competitor in the ultra-portable notebook market. It hits a sweet spot for those looking for the portability of tablet with the flexibility of a real latptop/ultrabook. Having a real keyboard and the ability to run and install applications such as Office is a big benefit for many people.

It probably won't click with casual content consumers (web/email), but for people that create and write content, it does seem to provide advantages over a typical tablet without being a full laptop. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

The keyboard question will be interesting. I've got an iPad and shelled out the $100 to get a keyboard cover (the Logitech one, where I curse its lack of an escape key sometimes). For general use I don't need a dedicated keyboard and/or the on screen keyboard is fine, but the two problems that the onscreen keyboard has are the fact that it covers half the screen when it appears, and it has some really long multi-key sequences for some characters. If I'm composing email or working on an ssh session I definitely prefer the hard keyboard.

So I'd certainly guess there is a product here, between tablets and laptops, and it will be interesting to see how the Surface fills that role.

As I posted in the other story that got flagged off front page, the new TV ad is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mSckyoAMHg

The good thing about the keyboard covers is that Windows RT supports mouse input unlike the iPad and a track pad is included in the keyboard covers. This will help alleviate some of the gorilla arm issues if you're trying to get work done. Native remote desktop with RemoteFX[1] support is good when you have WiFi access, say at Starbucks.

The Surface RT does some things better than the iPad. For example, it has a MicroSD slot and a full USB port. The side-by-side multitasking view is pretty nice to put a chat or Twitter client while browsing/working etc. The built in snap out stand is also pretty cool.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RemoteFX

PS: Funny to see this story as well getting flagged down. Stay classy HN.

You should get upvotes because you made a counter argument with specifics. (And that TV ad is the one I was referring to.)

The funny thing is, and this is totally in the realm of personal opinion-- I think all of the advantages you mention are actually detractions. Mouse input on a tablet? Seems like a big mistake (but I know, MSFT chose to go with a "windows mode" rather than port their office apps to touch) MicroSD slot? I'd rather that space went to more battery capacity or something more useful. "Full" USB port? If I could plug a mouse into the iPad I still wouldn't.

The snap out stand is something that I forgot about, but might use if the iPad had it. Finding a good case that supports all the different usage modes for the iPad is a pain. But still when I saw the stand shown off, it felt like a gimmick that makes the Surface feel cheap. That might be a marketing misfire, since this is actually a feature I might wish the iPad had, maybe if presented better.

Anyway, all just our opinions based on our preferences. If you buy a surface, I hope you love it!

You compare it to a tablet, which isn't really fair, since that's not really what MS seems to be aiming for. They are building more of a hybrid tablet/netbook. Wether that's a good idea, and they can execute it is uncertain.

For the SD slot, I think they absolutely have a use. Like transfering photos from your camera. Yes, you could do it over wifi, but then you'd still need to transfer them to another computer first. If you have one...

Even the USB slot can be extremely useful for some usecases. Look at the hacks people put up with for the ipad to connect external devices. Square use the audio jack both for powering their perhapial and to transfer data. It's riddiculous. And you sacrifice all sound while using it.

Who want this?

http://www.microsoft.com/global/en-us/news/publishingimages/...

I think you'd be surprised at how a color that is SO DIFFERENT could make the device seem unique and individual. Everyone has either a black or a brushed metal laptop. Something this bright could sell well because of its novelty.

There was a lot of buzz around the cyan version of the new Nokia Windows Phone 8.

This seems like a quick hack version where a variable has been changed to pink.. My problem with this is not the pink by itself but mostly how it doesn't fit with the other elements. Try changing the background of HN to pink to have an idea of what I mean.

The Nokia cyan is different as it still fit with the overall design.

You haven't been on a college campus recently, have you? Most laptops have some sort of after-market coloring, stickers, or case. Not just PCs, I mean most as in MacBooks too.

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