Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers.
Let’s see if Apple can turn things around. iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits.
Here I've been thinking it's a hardware problem, like some sort of mechanical intermittent. Maybe not.
Just install the SuperTyping app. It's sooo good and intuitive. Totally worth the $189, if you consider how often you need to type something.
I also recommend Little Snitch as firewall and Parallels for virtualization.
Does anyone have a recommendation for bootloader or filesystem app? Preferably subscription model for intuitive accounting.
My latest version of the problem is with Ubuntu Gnome. Upgrade software and, later, you will be interrupted with a pop-up window to enter your system password. Not only is this an interruption, I’m always doubtful that this is the system asking for a sudoer password!
UIs, in my experience, are very bad at handling “interrupts”. Sorry, my dad designed chips, so I use that hardware term when talking about notifications and other times another application needs to notify or get the input from user. Personally, I’d have the UI change the color/texture of the system menubar/taskbar and wait for the user to click it.
Obviously by shutting the hell up, you ungrateful serf. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Seriously, though, if you want this to stop, people like you are going to have to start voting with their wallets.
I finally pulled the plug on macOS a couple years ago for Linux, and I haven't been unhappy about it. However, I did make a point of buying a laptop that was well supported on Linux (a Lenovo X1 Carbon that was in the same price class as an equivalent Mac).
Too many companies are balking at spending money on hardware right now. While I would love to think that this will drive Linux adoption, it probably won't. Microsoft is going to cave on TPM 2.0 for Windows 11 or extend Windows 10 support much further.
I wouldn't mind if this finally lights a fire under certain software companies to also actually optimize their shit for memory use, but... I'm not that optimistic.
(OTOH running text-mode Emacs from a headless VM in a full-screen built-in Terminal may suddenly feel sluggish. Kitty or WezTerm solves this.)
You think I CHOSE to be miserable? Sorry, I have kids, and you know, they don't exactly live on dog food, but even that costs money. My job requires me to use a Mac. And please don't tell me to "find a better job". I've been programming for over twenty years, only once I was given a clearance to pick "whatever kind of machine you want". For my personal computing I do use Linux.
I had a similar problem at one point, then finally figured out it was when I accidentally hit the fn button which triggered the emoji picker window and moved focus to it (IIRC), but it was off-screen because I'd previously used it on a secondary monitor. Reconnecting the monitor and moving the window back to my primary display fixed it. (Obviously, it's a bug to show a picker window outside of visible coordinates, and I think it got fixed eventually.)
But it also might not be Apple at all, if it's some third-party background utility with a bug. E.g. if that were happening to me, my first thought would be that it might be a Logitech bug or a Karabiner-Elements bug. Uninstalling any non-Apple background processes or utilities seems like a necessary first step.
No OS should steal focus, Windows absolutely is guilty of it.
I chose what happens after. Can recommend. I wasn't even aware of my privilege.
Reproduction steps:
- Start a reply to this comment in your browser, type some example words.
- Create a BAT file with the following contents:
@echo off
timeout /t 15 /nobreak >nul
start notepad.exe
- Run the BAT file.
- Immediately switch back to the browser tab, and place your focus into the HN reply box. Type a word.
- Wait for notepad to open
- Continue typing. Your typing will go into Notepad and not the browser tab you had focused last.
If you're a Visual Studio user, it is a daily annoyance. You hit Start/Play, go about your work, and then suddenly some time later focus shifts out from under you.
Edit: I tried it with Firefox and got a repro there. No stealing with Edge.
Focus should change only in response to user commands.
When you launch an application or open a dialog, you expect the new window to "steal" focus. When you close a dialog, you expect focus to go back to the main window. If it didn't, it would impair usability.
So how would an OS decide when "stealing focus" is allowed and when it is not?
Like, I'm frustrated with it too. I hate when an app pops up a dialog while I'm typing and my next keystroke dismisses it and I have no idea what I've done. But at the same time, I'd hate to have to manually switch focus to a pop-up dialog every single time before dismissing it with Enter or Escape too -- that would be way too annoying in the other direction.
This seems like an example of a situation that modern machine learning could help with. Take bug reports permissively and look through all of them for patterns. Loss of focus should be the kind of thing that would stand out and could be analyzed for similarities and recurring features. Making sense of large amounts of often vague and rambling reports has been a problem for a long time and seems like a domain that machine learning is well set for.
In my experience, shipping a product as polished as Mac OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard requires a painful level of dedication from everyone involved, not just Quality Assurance.
As long as neither the New York Times nor the Wall Street Journal writes about how bad Apple’s software has gotten, there’s even no reason for them to think about changing their approach.
The drama surrounding Apple’s software quality isn’t showing up in their earnings. And at the end of the day, those earnings are the "high order bit," no matter what marketing tries to tell us.
How?
How do you reproduce something when you have no idea of the cause and it's not happening on any of your machines?
And remember they don't have just this one unreproducible bug reported. They have thousands.
If you have experience writing software, you're going to end up with a lot of unreproducible bug reports. They're a genuine challenge for everyone, not just Apple.
Tiny number of users with such an enormous user base (10-16% desktop share) still means there's thousands of users affected.
Whether or not external micr suck on MacOS doesn’t really matter. The objective was to diagnose an issue.
I use a trackball for RSI reasons, in order to get across the screen in a single flick means high sensitivity, mouse acceleration is absolutely needed to be able to make small movements. This makes my scroll wheel useless because a single scroll moves the page about 1/10 of a line
(except that my latest one has just suffered catastrophic battery failure)
My sister in law gave me her G700S to fix the main button microswitches, and she convinced me that it's the apotheosis of the design - it's what should have replaced the Performance MX. No soft-touch plastic, extra buttons, and the higher resolution sensor. I'll probably have to get one off eBay.
Edit: also all of the Masters have non-user-replaceable batteries.
Yes, but the battery is standard and easily replaceable.
My main gripe with the G700s is the weight, although it's not much heavier than the mx master 3. It also helps to have a great mousepad, or else I get tired of pushing that brick around. There are also aftermarket pads if you use it on the desk and they wear. I haven't tried any, though, my pads are still fine.
The G604 that the prior post referenced uses a single AA battery, so also standard and easily replaceable.
Another option which sidesteps the Logi Options crap is Logitech "gaming" mice. These have an integrated memory that actually remembers the configuration set by the driver. So, you only have to put up with the shitty experience once, and then the mouse remembers those settings wherever you use it. Some models can actually remember multiple setting sets.
One of my best mice is a G700s. I haven't used the Logitech G crap in like... ten years? The mouse is still going strong. Its only issue is that it goes through batteries like a hot knife through butter. I like it so much, I actually bought a second one for work. Got it used, since they weren't making them anymore.
https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/37493733117847-Op...
Which would only happen if you are using it wireless.
It happened to me this morning.
That's not macos fault in this case, it's just that Logitech mouses (MX Master at least) doesn't act well at all without driver. Like, for scrolling, it's like the mouse is sending raw smooth scrolling each time you just touch the wheel and without the driver that presumably fake it on the computer side, there is no synchronisation between your actual scroll and the steps you physically feel in the wheel.
Non-Mac OSs don't know how to turn this GPU on out of the box, so it just sits there without bothering anybody. But, for some reason, MacOS turns it on and it craps the bed, rendering the machine unusable.
Apple ended up replacing the mainboard in a free out-of-AppleCare repair. I never had the problem again and I used the machine regularly until about 2018.
> superpowered your menu bar, giving you total control over your menu bar items, what's displayed, and when, with menu bar items only showing when you need them.
Which also, for some reason has permission to record your desktop and recently had a change of owner? I'd be reformatting my computer so quickly if I found this out about software on my computer...
The screen recording permissions are needed for it to be aware of when menu bar icons update so it can move them in and out of the menu bar; I believe later versions allow you to skip screen recording permissions if you’re willing to forgo that feature.
[1]: https://setapp.com/
You can run a python script to track the focused window every few seconds to identify what’s stealing focus.
If you want to report something to Apple you use the "Feedback Assistant App"
I wish these people would wake up and spend their time helping peers on a forum for some open source project instead.
They pretend to offer "solutions" so their posts don't come across as unconstructive, but their solutions are always essentially the same, often culminating in a factory reset. There is never any attempt to get to the bottom of anything or diagnose what the actual issue is.
They are volunteering their time to make people shut up, bow their head in shame and go away. I don't think this is what you want in an open source project.
Instead we get:
https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/669252
>”… Now, the few Apple engineers that get back to me for some of these issues and the Apple support as well often tell me that Apple really cares about customer feedback. I really want to believe this ... but it's so hard to believe it, if less than 1% of my submitted reports (yes, less than 1%, and it's probably much less) ever gets a response. A response, if it ever comes, can come after 3 months, or after 1 year, or after 3 years; only rarely does it come within 1 month. To some of the feedbacks, after getting a response from the Apple engineers, I responded, among other things, by asking if I'm doing something wrong with the way I submit the feedback reports. Because if I do something wrong, then that could be the reason why only so few of them are considered by the Apple engineers. But I never got any answer to that. I told them that it's frustrating sending so much feedback without ever knowing if it's helpful or not, and never got an answer. …”
Why is this Apple’s path?
In my exp. their _support_ is fantastic which is another reason it’s odd they will simply leave countless _feedback_ submissions open nearly indefinitely. They ignore their free laborers!
(They do defend them IRL, it's "commonly known" that HDs have issues that the install base "overlooks".)
I’m no Harley owner but you and I both know the answer to that.
As a developer, it's easy to be blind to this because they're on "your side", but it's bad for the health of your support forums.
It's not just on Apple's forums, Microsoft has the same kind of guys. They tend to look really popular too because all the other fanbois upvote their comments.
And not only there, many open-source software forums have the same problem.
At least you know it’s not working as place to submit issue reports. It is better than other way, like Figma, 1Password and many others: a Support Forum with an army of yes-men “support specialists”. They would answer your query with basic troubleshooting and then will say that it will be passed to development team or will be considered, etc. perfectly designed system to pacify user and dismiss their report.
and watch years go by with no fixes or improvements to basic OS fundamentals.
They finally found a marketable name for /dev/null.
lol. Can't tell you how many times I've clicked "I have this problem too" on a page where users can't help each other because apple is doing/hiding something stupid.
Especially annoying when every app is likely to have single-key shortcuts which end up being accidentally triggered.
Don’t try to interact with a windows desktop while it is still booting up. Better to wait for everything to settle down, otherwise apps will constantly snatch away focus and your typing will go into random applications.
Mac OS used to be rock solid. We had machines at work that had uptime measured in years. My own machine would go months.
It doesn’t anymore. Restarted twice today.
Wikipedia claims that Android "has the largest installed base of any operating system in the world", if you're going to measure popularity that way.
(Of course it's hard to know how to define an OS. Is Android a kind of Linux? Are the various things called "Windows" or "MacOS" to be regarded as different versions of the same OS just because marketing people decided to use the same name? If not, how much similarity in code or design is required?)
Android is an app platform.
No.
Most common? Loathed? Used? Most tolerated?
It’s not liked, and ‘popular’ implies that.
I work on a desktop Windows/Mac application that takes forever and a day to launch (CAD package), and pops up a million pop-ups during the process. I try to get minor admin tasks done while it is compiling/launching, but it steals focus every 10 seconds!
Still beats using XCode, though
by default if you haven't typed anything for a little bit Windows allows an application to steal focus. If you change that value you can prevent windows from ever stealing focus or change how long they have to wait before they're allowed to.
I experience the same with macOS. For example Discord steals focus.
A flashing cursor in an inactive text box. Possibly the most annoying of bugs.
Looking at you Windows, COMRAD and every login I ever do.
by default if you haven't typed anything for a little bit Windows allows an application to steal focus. If you change that value you can prevent windows from ever stealing focus or change how long they have to wait before they're allowed to.
Windows has a ton of little settings you can tweak like this if it's not working quite how you like it.
I personally tweak it the other way to allow a window to pop up and still focus sooner .
If you set up via PowerShell you can do it more dynamically and if you're doing it via the API there's behavior in there too force a lock
by default if you haven't typed anything for a little bit Windows allows an application to steal focus. If you change that value you can prevent windows from ever stealing focus or change how long they have to wait before they're allowed to.
When you buy powerfull computers, this problem basically doesn't exist, both on Windows or macOS. Since Macs have historically been more expensive and premium, even the cheaper model was powerfull enough to finish the boot sequence fast enough that the desktop would feel snappy almost instantly. On the other hand, cheap PCs struggle to accomplish every task in a timely manner.
I am amazed about how stupid and ignorant is the average Mac fanboy. I have been a Mac user first and foremost, but you guys are just full of shit.
But apparently Apple is not the only offender. Just as I was typing this (on Harmonic on Android), a popup popped up, ate a few of the characters I typed and disappeared again. No idea what it said. Why do people do this? Don't hijack let applications I didn't ask for hijack my input.
https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/37493733117847-Op...
The memes about Steve Jobs turning in his grave are true. He would not have stood for slop like this for even a moment. Apple's quality game was miles higher back in the day.
Even if they tried to do some kind of Snow Leopard maintenance release for all of their products, I don't think they could raise the bar on quality high enough in just a single release. They'd have to do it a few times with nothing new to show for it.
This speaks nothing of the transition to MacOS looking more and more like a dysfunctional toy since Jony Ive left and Alan Dye took over.
Tiger and Snow Leopard were the peak.
So its not just me!
There's a handy Python script here to show log which application is stealing focus: https://superuser.com/a/874314
If you find it's SecurityAgent then you might be hitting this bug: https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/807112
I suspect it's related to a JIT privilege management app my company uses.
Yes, but Linux is finally in that position, not to mention we're seeing silicon from intel and amd that can compete with the M series on mobile devices.
I work at Google, which issued a Gubuntu workstation by default when I joined. I exchanged it for a Mac, which I've spent a literal lifetime using, because I didn't wanna fall down a Linux tinkering hole trying to make Gubuntu feel like home. Every corp device I've had has been a Mac.
I'm reading this from a coffee shop. On my walk here, I was idly wondering if I should give Glinux (as its now called) a try when I'm forced to replace the iMac. SteamOS is making Linux my default environment in the same way Mac was for decades prior.
Unfortunately, I looked into it, and my other options are an Asus CX54 Chromebook or a Lenovo X1. There simply aren't competitive alternatives to Mac hardware, at least not at modern Google.
[[citation needed]], benchmarks please, incl battery life, not promises. "We are seeing" implies reality
Let's not even talk about the case when you have monitors that have different DPI, something that is handled seamlessly by MacOS, unlike Linux where it feels like a d20 roll depending on your distro.
I expect most desktop MacOS users to have a HiDPI screen in 2026 (it's just...better), so going to Linux may feel like a serious downgrade, or at least a waste of time if you want to get every config "right". I wish it was differently, honestly - the rest of the OS is great, and the diversity between distros is refreshing.
And we were talking about why Linux wasn't an alternative to macOS, weren't we?
Also fractional scaling is not supported out-of-the-box in GNOME, you have to set a config value to use it IIRC.
I hope to put my money where my mouth is and contribute to one of the tiny handful of nascent Mac-like environment projects out there once some spare time opens up, but until then…
That means you can take the standard KDE "panel" and split it in two halves: a dock for the bottom edge, and a menus/wifi settings/clock bar for the top edge.
There are some things I don't know how to work around - like Chrome defaulting to Windows-style close buttons and keybindings, but if the Start menu copy is the thing keeping you off Linux, you can mod it more than you think you can.
merge request: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/m...
What was impossible was to stop apps from showing the usual menu bar inside the window.
Obviously, with something so core to the system, plenty of devils in the details.
The biggest difference is probably that under Windows-style environments, applications/processes and windows are mostly synonymous — each window represents an independent process in the task manager. In a Mac-style environment, applications can host multiple windows each, so for example even if you've got 7 Firefox windows open, there's only one host Firefox process. This is reflected in the UI, with macOS grouping windows by application in several difference places (as opposed to Windows, where that only happens in the taskbar if the user has it enabled).
"Windows style" also comes a number of other patterns, such as a taskbar instead and menubars attached to windows (as opposed to a dock and a single global, system-owned menubar under macOS).
"Mac style" comes with several subtleties that separate it from e.g. GNOME. Progressive disclosure is a big one. Where macOS will keep power user features slightly off to the side where they're accessible but unlikely to confuse non-technical users, GNOME just omits the functionality altogether. It also generally implies a greater level of system-level integration and cross-functionality from apps (including third party), lending to a more cohesive feel.
Therefore newcomers should use Kubuntu or the likes of it
Even if KDE/Xorg is a stable experience is true now, it will not be true in the medium to short term. And a distro like Kubuntu might be 2 years out from merging a "perfect" KDE Plasma experience if it arrived right now.
That’s why Apple used 4k on 22”, 5k on 27 and 6k on 32 to make it crispy always on 200%
Linux has bugs, bug MacOS does too. I feel like for a dev like me, the linux setup is more comfortable.
I know people will say meh but coming from the world of hurt with drivers and windows based soft modems — I was on dial up even as late as 2005! — I think the idea that everything works plug and play is amazing.
Compare with my experience on Windows — maybe I did something wrong, I don't know but the external monitor didn't work over HDMI when I installed windows without s network connection and maybe it was a coincidence but it didn't work until I connected to the Internet.
And god forbid you still have low DPI monitor still!
5k has been surprisingly stagnant.
I’d prefer that to not be so, because 5K panels are so much more expensive. But in a side by side comparison it’s very obvious.
But the market has spoken: a quality 4K display is very good, certainly good enough, and the value for money is great.
I’m ok with spending more on a better display that I spend so much time with. The cost per use-hour is still very, very low.
And MacOS has removed support for subpixel rendering because "retina", though I only use it when forced (work).
When considering a single-cable solution like Thunderbolt or USB-C with DP altmode, if you are not going with TB5, you will either use all bandwidth for video with only USB2.0 HID interfaces, or halve the video bandwidth to keep 2 signal lanes for USB 3.x.
(I am currently trying to figure out how can I run my X1 Carbon gen 13 with my 8k TV from Linux without an eGPU, so deep in the trenches of color spaces, EDID tables and such as I only got it to put out 6k to the TV :/)
FWIW, I could see jagged edges on 4k at 24" without subpixel rendering, 27" is worse. Yes, even 4k at 32" is passable with MacOS, but Linux looks better (to the point that 4k at 43" has comparable or slightly better text quality to 4k at 32" for a Mac).
I am trying to get a 55" 8k TV to work well with my setup, which might be a bit too big (but same width as the newly announced 6k 52" monitor by Dell), but it's the first next option after prohibitively expensive 32" options.
In some sense it's reasonable that you need a supported monitor, it's just strange that Linux can support all these monitors, but macOS can't?
I have been using a 4K display for years on Linux without issues. The scaling issue with non-native apps is a problem that Windows also struggles with btw.
I'm currently using a laptop (1920x1200, 125%) + external monitor (1920x1080, 100%) at work. The task manager has blurry text when putting in the external monitor. It is so bad.
(And a workaround).
Unfortunately I cannot modify registry at work so I have to live with it.
I also have programs that bleed from one monitor onto another when maximized. AutoCAD is one offender that reliably does this -- if it's maximized, several pixels of its window will overlap the edge of the window on the adjacent screen. The bar I set for windows is pretty low, so I'm generally accepting of the jank I encounter in it vs Linux where I know any problem is likely something I can fix. Still, that one feels especially egregious.
Works just fine here (1920x1200 125%, 4K 150%, 1080p 100%).
Text rendering × DPI seems to be one of those difficult problems.
My 2019 Mac Pro with Catalina could happily drive 2 4K monitors in HDR @ 144 Hz.
People wondered how Apple got the math to work to drive the ProDisplay.
Big Sur? Not any more. 95Hz for 4K SDR, 60Hz for 4K HDR. Not the cables, not the monitors. Indeed, "downgrading" the monitors advertised support to DP 1.2 gave better options, 120Hz SDR, 75Hz HDR.
And it was never fixed, not in Big Sur, Monterey or Ventura, when I had switched monitors.
Hundreds of reports, hundreds of video/monitor combinations.
"a hurried, wild, or desperate manner, often due to extreme worry, fear, excitement, or panic"
At some point this frantic nature of trying to do something will cause more issues all by itself.
Instead of spending hours in desperation, I was only suggesting taking a step back and maybe when not in a frantic state, it would be easier to move forward.
The third party software is really good, but come on, Apple, take a hint.
And, as I said, I really only needed the software once I got an (ultra)ultrawide monitor, and it could be the info it is sending is also non-standard in some way.
I doubt anything is going to get fixed, and Apple's hardware crown isn't as strong as before. But they like selling "services," so...
i think that's what you're describing, anyway.
Meanwhile on MacOS my displays may work. Or they might not work. Or they might work but randomly locked to 30hz. It depends on what order they wake up in or get plugged in.
I suspect the root of the problem is one of them is a very high refresh rate monitor (1440p360hz) and probably related to the display bandwidth limitations that provide a relatively low monitor limit for such a high cost machine.
Macs don't support the USBC / displayport daisy chaining support that my monitors should be able to handle. Very frustrating that this stuff is still so nonstandard. If you have all Apple it all works perfectly, of course.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255860955?sortBy=upvote...
After 344 "me too"s and 180+ replies they silently locked the thread to save themselves from more embarassment.
Don't knock it unless you've tried it.
This was CachyOS btw. Windows actually required MORE work because I had to install drivers, connect to the internet during setup, get nagged about using a Microsoft account, etc.
CachyOS was basically boot -> verify partitions are correct -> decide on defaults -> create account/password -> wait for files to copy -> done. Drivers, including the latest NVIDIA drivers, auto installed/working.
I give Linux a try each time I need to set up a new computer, and each time run into new issues. Last time (2 years ago) the hdmi connection with the screen would drop randomly twice a day. Same for the keyboard, and the wifi card didn't have drivers available. It became quite annoying, reducing my productivity as I had to reboot and pray. I then installed Windows, which solved all of the issues (unfortunately?)
Maybe I'm just unlucky.
Eventually I found a fix that worked and now I’m happy. So, next time you can try this. In the file:
~/.config/gtk-4.0/settings.ini
You can add:
[Settings]
gtk-hint-font-metrics=1
Here’s the Arch wiki page that explains it:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/GTK#Text_in_GTK_4_applicati...
If your settings.ini is in a different spot see:
Things are changing and improving VERY fast in linux land lately, so being behind by that much is gonna pretty much set you up for disappointment, along all the usual reasons why you ideally want to be on the just dull enough part of the bleeding edge for linux desktop, where you are only getting a few small shallow cuts and hopefully no deep cuts...
Anyway, popular acclaim for popos reached it's peak just when those problems started to show up. It used to be better in years prior, but the reputation tends to lag the actual reality, so sentiment at that point was to recommend it even though it wasn't actually a good choice.
Honestly, give Linux another try four or so months from now. You will get to start fresh on a brand new Ubuntu LTS or the usual new Fedora release. Try Gnome or KDE, see which ones sticks the best with you. Just don't try anything else if you want maximum features, commodity and stability.
Yes, you were unlucky :(
The only reason I can't completely switch to Linux is because there are no great options for anything non-programming related stuff I love to do ... such as photography, music (guitar amplifier sims).
The only reliable fixes are to either disable that DisplayPort feature if your monitor supports it, or to disable GPU Dithering using a paid third-party tool (BetterDisplay). Either that or switch to Asahi, which doesn't have that issue.
The issue is common enough that BENQ has a FAQ page about it, which includes steps like "disable dark mode" and "wait for 2 hours": https://www.benq.com/en-us/knowledge-center/knowledge/how-to...
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/best/by-usage/busines...
And as noted here on HN a couple days ago, avoid OLED. Coincidentally, the top office monitor per rtings is what that post compared OLED to:
https://nuxx.net/blog/2026/01/09/oled-not-for-me/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46562583
We use pairs of these Dells per MacBook at our offices and provide them for WR as well. There've been no issues on this Dell or prior models on M1 through M4 (M5 iPad is fine too).
As for DSC, that's been a complaint for a minute… Example HN reader theory on DSC, from Aug 2023:
In my opinion a QHD 23.8” panel is the next best option for developers (any M-series chip handles scaling without issues); I find the common 27” and 32” at 4K a weird spot - slightly too large, slightly too low resolution – and 5k+ options are still rare.
One of the many random issues on the OS with the best UX in the world (lol). Like music sometimes stopping and sometimes switching to speakers when turning off Bluetooth headphones, mouse speed going bananas randomly requiring mouse off and on, terminal app (iterm2) reliably crashing when I dare to change any keybinding, and many other things that never happened in years of working on Linux.
I would like to point out that, from my experience on M1, external displays do not work at all over DisplayPort on Asahi Linux at the moment.
I’m also, to get the two external displays without them being mirrored, using a docking station and a display driver from Silicon Motion called macOS InstantView.
This is of course not ideal if you need DP and DSC.
MacOS isn't in any kind of position regarding displays. 180+ replies and 300+ upvotes by the 0.1% of sufferers who bother to find these threads, log in, and comment of them. Exteemely widespread, going on for years, thread silently locked.
lmfao
Gnome in Linux works great for a decade+ with a single high resolution screen, but there are certainly apps that render too small (Steam was one of the problems).
Different scaling factors on several monitors are not perfect though, but I generally dislike how Mac handles that too as I mostly use big screen when docked (32"-43"-55"), or laptop screen when not, and it rearranges my windows with every switch.
Zero fiddling necessary other than picking my ideal scaling percentage on each display for perfect, crisp text with everything sanely sized across all my monitors/TVs.
I gave up on Linux Mint for that exact reason. I wasted so much time trying to fine tune fonts and stuff to emulate real fractional scaling. Whenever I thought I finally found a usable compromise some random app would look terrible on one of the monitors and I’d be back at square one.
Experimental Wayland on Linux Mint just wasn’t usable unfortunately and tbh wasn’t a big fan of Cinnamon in general (I just really hated dealing with snaps on Ubuntu). I did tweak Gnome to add minimize buttons/bottom dock again and with that it’s probably my favorite desktop across any version of Linux/MacOS/Windows I’ve ever used!
I kept reading endorsements of Fedora's level of polish/stability on HN but was kinda nervous having used Debian distros my entire life and I’m really happy I finally took the plunge. Wish I tried it years ago!
This. I don't know why, but people forget about Fedora when considering distros. They rather fight Arch than try Fedora. So, did I. Maybe its Redhat. Wish I switched earlier, too. (Although I heard this level of polish wasn't always the case.)
I love Fedora so much. Everything just works, but that's not that special compared to Ubuntu. What is special is the fucking sanity throughout the whole system. Debian based distros always have some legacy shit going on. No bloat, no snap, nothing breaking convention and their upgrade model sits in the sweet spot between Ubuntu's 4 year LTS cycle and Arch's rolling release. Pacman can rot in hell, apt is okay, but oh boy, do I love dnf.
Tho, Fedora has some minor quirks, which still make it hard to recommend for total beginners without personal instructions/guidance IMO. Like the need for RPMFusion repos and the bad handling/documentation of that. Not a problem if you know at all what a package manager, PKI and terminal is, but too much otherwise.
LTS support runs for 5 years (there is extended support for 10 years available), so you can skip an LTS if you don't need the latest base software.
I'm now looking to get off Windows permanently before security updates stop for Win 10 as I have no intention of upgrading to Win 11 since Linux gaming is now a lot more viable and was the only remaining thing holding me back from switching earlier. I've been considering either Bazzite (a Fedora derivative with a focus on gaming) or Mint but after reading your comment I may give vanilla Fedora a try too.
So far I've tried out the Bazzite Live ISO but it wouldn't detect my wireless Xbox controller though that may be a quirk of the Live ISO. I'm going to try a full install on a flash drive next and see if that fixes things.
I still had the issue of no gamepad detection. I had to install xone which took some trial and error. Firstly, I didn't have dkms installed and secondly, soon after installing Fedora the kernel was updated in the background and on reboot my display resolution was fixed to 1024x768 or something for some reason (that's gonna be another issue I'll have to look into). I rebooted and went back to the previous version and then dkms complained the kernel-headers were missing. However, the kernel-headers were installed for the latest kernel but not the older version I had rebooted to. I'm not used to Fedora or dnf (I run Proxmox+Debian in my homelab) so after a quick search to figure out how to install a specific version of a package (it's not as simple as <package>@<version> but rather <package>-<version>.fc$FEDORA_VERSION.$ARCHITECTURE) I got kernel-devel installed and was able to finally run the xone install script successfully and have my gamepad detected.
The most frustrating thing is that the xone install script doesn't fail despite errors from dkms so after the first install (where I almost gave up because I thought something was wrong with my setup) I had to run the uninstall script each time there was a problem and then run it again. The xone docs also mention running a secondary script which doesn't actually exist until the first script runs successfully so that added a lot of confusion.
My understanding is you only need xone for the special adapter right? Have you tried cable and plain bluetooth before? Also Steam seems to come bundled with their own drivers for it, so the controller may just work within games in Steam, regardless.
I feel a bit bad, but honestly gaming on Linux is not my thing. From a quick glance, messing with the kernel like that may cause problems with secure boot and maybe that's causing your issues. Maybe you need to sign your modules or disable secure boot.
Have you tried the Copr repo? https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/jackgreiner/xone-git...
And of course Bazzite seems to have addressed this out-of-the-box... :D
Quite frankly, if you want to do anything but gaming on that machine, at least for me, manually installing kernel modules from GitHub would be a deal breaker, since that seems rather unstable and prone to cause nasty problems down the line.
I have a new issue though after updating 900+ packages using KDE Discover which is that the GUI login doesn't work. The screen goes blank after I enter credentials and nothing happens unless I switch to another TTY at which point I get thrown back to the login screen on TTY1. As a workaround, I can login on another TTY and then use startplasma in order to use KDE. I've learnt my lesson not to use KDE Discover for updates though because it doesn't get logged in dnf history so you can't use dnf rollback.
Its the "getting every config" right thing that is the problem.
I’m glad everyone is dogpiling on this statement cause man people seriously have to stop parroting this years out of date claim at this point. Any big well supported distro using Wayland should be fine, at the very least KDE and GNOME are guaranteed work perfectly with HiDPI.
Daily Fedora KDE user here on 4K HiDPI monitor plus another of a different lower resolution, flawless experience using both together in a setup. Fractional scaling also there working perfectly as well and you choose how you want KDE to scale the apps if you want (forcefully or let the app decide).
Why don’t they just make it obvious? Why doesn’t the installer just figure it out or ask me when it launches?
I agree that that would help, but it was easier to just install another distro.
IMO, there's basically no problem Linux has that isn't worse in Windows (at the OS level). Especially once you get into laptops.
My final conclusion was that I hate computers.
This has been my experience every time I try Linux. If I had to guess, tracing down all these little things is just that last mile that is so hard and isn't the fun stuff to do in making an OS, which is why it is always ignored. If Linux ever did it, it would keep me.
- Machine failed to wake from suspend almost 50% of the time (with both wired and BT peripherals) - WiFi speed was SIGNIFICANTLY slower. Easily a fraction of what it was on Mac - USB C display was no-op - Magic trackpad velocity is wild across apps - Window management shortcuts varied across apps (seems Gnome changes a lot, frequently) - Machine did not feel quicker, in fact generally felt slower than Tahoe but granted I did not benchmark anything
I would happily try it again when the project is further along
iOS and the third-party app store court battles makes it clear to me that Apple is actively hostile here.
It would have taken less work for apple to implement the EU "third-party app store" regulation as "anyone can install a 3rd party app store if they jump through enough hoops". They instead require that you live in the EU, as verified through many factors. They break it if you take too long of a vacation, they make using your new right to install a 3rd party app store as difficult as they can.
Apple clearly does not value user freedom nor users abilities to install their own software on their own devices. Apple would rather old iPhones and iPods become useless e-waste bricks than release an EoL update to unlock the bootloader and let you install linux to turn that old iPod touch into a garage remote, or photo-frame, or whatever.
Your comments about iPads/iPhones may well be true but not relevant to my point. See also the comment from user Kina upthread.
Asahi linux would have been "a company that's extremely hostile to this effort."
They instead said "a company that's extremely hostile to this _kind of_ effort", which turns it into a broader category, which I believe quite reasonably includes their hostility to general "using their devices outside of the apple walled garden".
If you're going to be pedantic, please at least be correct, but "this kind of" clearly makes it more broad than just asahi linux itself.
"the Asahi team have been doing incredible work .." -> the team working on porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs.
"They just chose to do it on the hardware of a company that's extremely hostile to this kind of effort."
They -> Asahi Linux Team
it -> (note the singular) porting Asahi Linux
the hardware -> Apple Silicon Macs
a company -> Apple
My comment (the one you responded to): "it would have been shot down", (note the singular) it -> porting Asahi Linux.
You cannot torture the sentence to encompass the broader Apple ecosystem when the the subject is very obviously and solely the Asahi Linux team and Apple Silicon Macs. You're welcome to your views, just drop them somewhere more relevant next time.
Apple has also done things such as adding a raw image mode to prevent macOS updates from breaking the boot process for third-party operating systems. Which is only useful for 3rd party operating system development.
Sure, some developer may have added things like raw image mode, but if someone on high says "wait, people are buying macbooks and then not using the app store?" or as soon as someone's promo is tied to a security feature that breaks third-party OSes... well, don't be surprised when it vanishes. Running any OS but macOS is against ToS, and apple has already shown they are actively hostile to user freedom and choice (with the iOS app store debacle, the iMessage beeper mini mess, and so on). If you care about your freedom and ability to use Linux, you should not use anything Apple has any hand in ever.
> Apple formally allows booting third-party operating systems on Apple Silicon Macs. Shortly after the Asahi project started, Apple even added a raw image mode to prevent macOS updates from breaking the boot process for third-party operating systems. This provided no benefit to macOS whatsoever; it merely served to help third-party operating system development.
There are a lot of reasons to be annoyed with Apple, but we don't need to invent new ones, and there's an awful lot of misinformation out there about Macs that conflates how locked down iOS is with the Mac (combined with the insistence that Macs are going to be locked down just as much as iPhones within the next few years, which I have literally been hearing since the iPhone came out in 2007). There are some things that are more difficult to do on macOS Tahoe than they were on MacOS Leopard twenty years ago (like, apparently, resize windows), but there is nothing that is "locked down" in a way that makes something I remember doing then literally impossible to do now.
(I usually miss the little Linux-specific things that macOS does not.)
There's probably a lot more I'm not thinking of right now. Point is, if you're an iOS, macOS, and iCloud user you give up a lot of quality of life bits going to another platform. There are times I want to go back to Linux, but when I think about the stuff I'm going to loose I talk myself out of it. macOS isn't the greatest, but it's not the worst either and Apple's products and services just tie in very well with each other. I get annoyed by things like the shitty support for non-apple peripherals, needing 3rd party apps to make them work decent, crappy scaling except on the most expensive monitors and no decent font smoothing when running at native resolutions. But... I stick with it because I either like or love the tight integration and added quality of life that comes with it.
It's a different set of trade-offs; less polish, more control.
Definitely not exhaustive since I only spent a few weeks with it. There were also plenty of things I liked about Gnome more but not enough to tip the scale for me
I use macs at work and Linux at home. There's no uniform way to make a Linux machine accept things like cmd right arrow to jump to the end of the line, etc.
This is the closest attempt, but it has many gaps: https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto
Most people want to get productive work done with their computer, and OS X has top tier apps for every need possible.
No good e-mail app, no good office apps, no good calendar app, no good invoicing app, no good photo editing app, no good designer app, etc
> No good e-mail app, no good office apps, no good calendar app, no good invoicing app ...
People who aren't programmers use Gmail, Google Docs, Google Calendar, Stripe Invoicing, etc for those various use-cases.
Firefox and Chrome work just fine on Linux, so Linux has all the apps people actually use these days on computers.
And then you of course have corporate, who will not switch from Windows.
Nobody will voluntarily spend all day working within Gmail or Google docs.
You also conveniently cut out photo editing and design in your quote.
Edit: Also I wonder if all you server-admins, programmers and gamers would have switched to Linux if your only option was to do your work or gaming within a laggy and inadequate web-app? But you want other people to suffer that.
If the idea is moving from Windows to something better, then Mac is usually the answer. Unless you're a server admin, programmer, or gamer. Then Linux is probably great. Everybody wants to have tools that work well for the task.
Funny, there are whole companies, pretty big ones at that, that run entirely on the G Suite. Regardless of OS.
Unfortunately today it is a race to the bottom.
Sometimes, people think "it can be made to look similar, therefore it's the same" (especially with regard to KDE), and no, just no.
It's the way drag and drop is a fundamental interaction in text boxes, the proxy icons in title bars, how dragging a file to an open/save panel changes that panel's current folder rather than actually move a file.
It's how applications are just special folders that are treated like files, how they can update themselves independently of each other or any system packages, how you conventionally put them in the /Applications folder so you can put that folder on the Dock to use directly as a launcher.
It's how all text fields consistently support emacs-style keyboard shortcuts, respond appropriately to the system-provided text editing features such as the built-in Edit menu, text substitutions, and writing features.
It's how you can automate most Mac-assed apps; how you can extend the operating system through app-provided and user-created services to every other application that handles text, files, images, PDFs, through the built-in APIs using AppleScript, Automator, and Shortcuts.
It's how the whole program rather than its last window is the fundamental unit of an application such that document-based applications can exist without a window without also polluting some system tray with an unnecessary icon, how that means workflows expect more than one window open.
It's how there's a universal menu that works for every app, not just conforming ones (i.e. KDE's global menu only shows KDE apps' menus; other apps need a plugin or just don't show at all), how the help menu has a search field to look for menu items, how keyboard shortcuts are bound to the menu items are bound arbitrarily within the program's settings window and can thus be assigned globally in System Settings, how this means all of an application's main features are therefore accessible via the menu bar, how that creates consistency in the menus.
Those are just some things off the top of my head but there are plenty of others, some a bit more user facing, some less. Just examples, a non-exhaustive list.
I'm sure those who don't care about these things will dismiss it but if you've been using a Mac since before macOS, before OS X, or even before Mac OS X, these are things you won't drop for Linux just because the design is a bit uglier.
Of course, if none of these things matter, then the swap is easier. It doesn't mean any DE is a drop-in replacement by any means. Many of the things that make some DEs "Mac-like" are skin deep.
GNU/Linux isn't sold in shops like macOS and Windows for regular consumers, until it goes out from DYI and online ordering, it will remain a niche desktop system.
I've heard that for almost 20 years now, but it never was.
I'm not saying 2026 is the year, but...
I would argue the OS closest to "mainstream Linux" is Ubuntu or Fedora with Gnome DE. Gnome has many many faults but it's probably the closest DE you're going to get to what Windows and MacOS have.
Still on iOS 18 and macOS 15 (Sequoia). I was a day one upgrader up until now, never had any regrets but this time things seemed very different.
It's worrisome but all is not lost, I'll start sweating for real if next year's releases don't improve things substantially.
There was also a great boutique apps ecosystem.
Right now, it seems that macOS is going through its enshittification phase, sadly.
Most of the upgrades since then I have resisted and not enjoyed, though I seem to recall liking Mavericks.
A lot of the big features each time seem to be about tieing further into the Apple ecosystem, which doesn't interest me at all, since I have no other devices and don't use iCloud.
Was it also great for developers? (Genuine question.)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2026/01/07/hundreds-...
- an happy iOS 15 user
I can't see a single reason to upgrade to Tahoe. We'll see what 2026 brings.
I've tried and returned the iPhone 17 Pro. Love the hardware (especially the camera), but iOS 26 is inefficient (for lack of a better term), and the new camera UI hides too many things.
(Hold On for Dear Life)
My solution was to change from "Unified" to "Classic" which changes the bottom bar from [("Calls" "Contacts" "Keypad") "Search] to ["Favorites" "Recents" "Contacts" "Keypad" "Voicemail"]. THE ICONS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE. The only difference is the spacing between them.
But again, this is fucking crazy because going back to the classic mode, if I click on a recent name it starts dialing them. But in the unified mode it gives me information. The unified makes the whole name act as if I'm pressing the info button.
The problem is that Apple created an anti-pattern, TO ITSELF. They taught users that an action did one thing and then used that action to do something completely different. No one on iOS 26 should expect that clicking the call line will take you to the information page and should instead expect that doing so will start dialing that person.
I working in software and "build features" for a living, and over the years I've come to prioritize reliability, performance, and an intuitive experience over all else. No matter how good the feature set is, if it crashes, is painfully slow, or I can't figure out how to use it, then I don't want it.
Apple used to have that focus, but seems to have lost it of late.
But I find iOS 26 absolutely disrespectful. It wants you to use it in ways that previous iOS versions pushed you away from. It's an anti pattern to previous versions. I'm sorry, if you teach users one pattern don't update to have them do the opposite. Nothing is could be less intuitive
macOS has been an incredible productive OS for me since I was 15. I'm now 39. In the last few years is the first time in that period that I've seriously begun to wonder if it would be wise to get off the platform. I've already dropped iOS, watchOS (Garmins are actually amazing these days, for what it's worth), and iPadOS. I still use macOS daily along with tvOS when I happen to watch something, but the days seem numbered now. I'm pretty disappointed. I hope it turns around, but I'm slowly preparing myself to be on Linux primarily.
If I buy a product and the hardware is good for 10 years (because I looked after it), I expect the software to also run just as well as when I purchased it - that is the case with Linux, why isn't it the case with macOS?
Every year the software upgrades invariably degrade system performance. Outrageous.
Apple is miles ahead of Android when it comes to phones and tablets, most in the Android ecosystem is e-waste four or five years in, while Apple stuff can still be re-sold for actual money at that time assuming you didn't bust your screen.
For laptops, Apple is so far ahead it can't even be described. Most Windows laptops physically break apart before macOS ceases to support any Apple laptop.
Only thing we can maybe talk about is desktop PCs ever since the switch to M that basically made meaningful upgrades impossible, but eh, in my attic there's a 2009 Mac Pro still chugging along as my homelab server + gaming rig.
Edit: just did a google and it seems I can still sell it for about $600AUD, I don't know how anyone is buying a non apple lap top.
I have a very old android tablet (Nexus 7, 2013). I can install Linux on it and it works just fine. I can convert it into a full screen kiosk mode thing that displays photo albums, put it next to my tv as a song controller, etc etc.
Older iPads no longer get updates, and I can't install linux on them. Apple is wildly behind a lot of other hardware in terms of software-support since I can install linux on a lot of other stuff. Apple devices turn into useless e-waste bricks, other devices can get a second life running linux.
Yeah, Nexus and being old, that's the thing. Everyone else other than Nexus, you gotta be lucky if you even get kernel sources and device trees that you can compile, but the code quality will usually be so rotten there's no hope of mainstreaming it to the Linux kernel.
> Apple devices turn into useless e-waste bricks
Only the iDevice lineup though. The Intel and M series devices all can be made to run Linux.
Eh, I had to use a variety of iPhones for work recently, don't remember which models, from probably the last ~7 years though, and they really felt limited and frustrating on the software side. My already years old Pixel 7 feels miles ahead, and so did my Pixel 4a, even with the worse hardware of the latter. They just feel more capable.
I've been a mac guy for work for at least 15 years though, now with an M4 on Sequoia, and definitely won't be buying anything else (windows for most gaming), but Tahoe is not looking promising.
And Mussolini wasn't nearly as bad as Hitler. A relative measure like this sets an artificially low bar. If these devices had replaceable screens and batteries, they would be good until the mobile standards stopped being supported.
Damn, I haven't seen an instance of Godwin's law outside of political threads for years in the wild.
> If these devices had replaceable screens and batteries, they would be good until the mobile standards stopped being supported.
The problem is, even replaceable components don't matter when the OS support drops and the device becomes a bad netizen as a result. And no, there is no viable FOSS competition to Android and iOS, many including giants such as Mozilla learned that lesson the hard way.
And that's before getting into the whole issue with BSPs, horrible code quality (good luck trying to get any SoC BSP upstreamed to u-boot or god forbid the Linux kernel), or the rapid evolution in mobile SoC performance.
I'm not calling anyone Hitler, though, just pointing out the flaws that can come with relative comparisons. A known, extreme example here is useful as it's well known and illustrative.
Anyhow, Apple & Android should just support old hardware for longer.
Apple already does. The iPhone 6s, released 2015, got a security update just a few months ago [1]. That's ten years worth of security updates, I'm amazed that people are still using such old phones.
If we go by the metric of "app developers can still publish app updates", the minimum target version is iOS 18 [2], which means you can still target the iPhone XS from 2018, that's a 7 year old phone.
The true catastrophe is Android, and that's actually not Android's fault. That's the fault of Qualcomm, MTK, Samsung and other more obscure SoC vendors - only in 2023, with the Pixel 8 [3], came the first SoC with seven years of support. As said: most BSPs are utter dogshit, and so are the firmwares for all the tiny chips and IP cores. The Linux kernel is a very fast moving target and it's (by intent) a gargantuan effort to keep forked kernels up to date. And it's made even worse by the embedded industry's trend of continuously "improving" their chips/IP cores without changing model numbers, making it sometimes outright impossible for a kernel module to deal with two different steppings and respective quirks on its own.
Apple in contrast insists on writing everything themselves - that's why they fell out of love with NVIDIA a decade ago, NVIDIA refused to give Apple that level of access. That allows Apple to keep even very outdated stuff supplied at least with critical security fixes.
Google could do something here, say by adding a requirement to the Play Store license that BSPs must be actually accessible open source and vendors have to commit reasonable effort in upstreaming their kernel level drivers, but I guess Google is too afraid of getting hit by anti-trust issues.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone
[2] https://developer.apple.com/news/upcoming-requirements/?id=0...
[3] https://blog.cortado.com/en/7-years-of-software-updates-for-...
If you buy the $199 Windows laptop that can barely run Windows, yes. Anything comparable in price to a MacBook? Not really.
> Anything comparable in price to a MacBook?
The current MacBook Air is at ~1100€ here in Germany. That's not that expensive, particularly as even the entry models still blow away the competition for CPU.
I'd like Apple to focus more on the things that actually matter to users. To fix bugs, to work on performance, to simplify things rather than complicate them. Focus on making it a better platform for doing work and less a playground for pointless fiddling with design and sloppiness.
Features, people, FEATURES.
It's why your favorite shoe company, that you buy from every 2-3 years when you wear out your favorite shoes, always has new styles and discontinues other styles. Converse is a great example.
I do wish I heeded your advice. I bought some awesome Doc Marten boots/sneaker hybrids called "Boury" a few years ago, and they stopped making them. I can't find any in my size anywhere, like EBay. I walked all around Disney World with them in shorts, and they looked / felt awesome.
Journalists will report whatever they get fed anyway (notice how they all talk gleefully over the wobbly new iPhone with a jutting-out camera bump when only a few years ago they talked gleefully about how flat the iPhone was, and then gleefully wrote about how their screen estate was invaded by a notch etc), so if Apple focused on fixing issues instead of short-attention-span apps (when was the last time you used "Image Playground"?) the media could report how committed to reliability and quality Apple is, gleefully.
It's more effort to do things that also make sense than only to produce the bullet point.
I hoped the .1 or .2 would fix things, but I'm still seeing glitches and even random freezes.
Microsoft is a disaster right now, but if the new intel processor can compete on battery life with mac I might go back to linux.
Unfortunately Intel is cutting down their Linux involvement so I wouldn't have high hopes for it. Newer AMD laptops are probably on par with Intel on Linux now.
Dye didn't bring something that users didn't know they needed, he brought chaos to the entire ecosystem, and he's the only Apple executive folks are willing to talk garbage about.
If Cook and his other senior staff had recognized the problems Dye was causing and wanted him gone, what possible motivation would they have to make his firing secret? How could it possibly serve them better to have it look like they were chumps?
"You can change your icons!" - What? Was that the big issue of my day? (Although, after I saw what they had done to them, it certainly loomed larger in my mind)
and
"Notification summaries that may be incorrect"
Miserable. Won't be upgrading the personal computer, am fast moving away from Apple as a whole, am telling others not to upgrade for as long as possible.
Can't you do a factory reset/recovery on Mac that lands on the version of macos shipped with the device? Then you could re-upgrade to the os you wanted, without trying it it seems Sequoia is still available in the app store
One huge reason to use third-party programs where possible. I dislike Apple's tight coupling of utilities as it is.
Though amongst many other wonderful things lost in the mysts of Mac history I still desperately miss NetBoot/NetInstall and ultra easy clone/boot with something like CCC and TDM. It's so fucking miserable now in comparison to do reinstalls/testing/restores.
----
You read that right: apparently rounded corners are so resource-intensive that if you don't have or disable GPU acceleration, they'll disappear.
As much as I absolutely hate rounded corners in general, it's astonishing the apparent inefficiency with which MS have implemented them. Then again, mediocrity seems to be par for the course with their developers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28743687
This is akin to MobileMe -
https://www.cultofmac.com/apple-history/steve-jobs-mobileme-...
Other than that weird resize thing written about here (which I didn't notice, thanks SizeUp for providing me with hotkeys remarkably similar to Windows) - why? Vista and 8 were immediately obvious changes in the UI, but in general it still looks and feels just like macOS has for well over a decade now.
New icons, new fonts, but... that's it?
Oh and HyperSwitch for some reason can't switch to Finder windows any more, but that's probably because HyperSwitch hasn't seen an upgrade in years...
Apple had a HIG and third party developers used it. Different apps looked consistent: toolbar, sidebar etc.
Apps had borders. If there was too much content there were big blue scrollbars.
Buttons had borders. Windows had texture. You could find stuff.
I could go on forever. But the OS was simultaneously better visible to the eye, and less visible to the mind. Stuff worked.
Or iOS 8 and 9 did revert back a lot of iOS 7 changes.
I am not against changing UI, but it seems every time they are doing it they forgot all the lesson learned from previous attempt, and in such short period of time suggest they haven't learned anything.
Just to give a few examples which annoys me the most:
- Finder. It just something else. After 10 years of using OSX I still can’t figure out how to use it efficiently for selecting the path - this experience is different every time, depending on the context where Finder was called from. I just don’t get.
- Lack of the true tiling window manager experience. Yes, there is Yabai, but it still suck due to the fact that you can’t have truly independent spaces each with individual layout and stack of windows.
- Infamous Magic Mouse’s charting port at the bottom.
I just wish I could have normal Linux natively on MB Pro.
They also added stupid "quick launch" areas with places nobody went, like "3D Objects", and reduced the menu area to a "grope and find a button" ribbon.
The older Explorers were usable like File Manager on Windows 3.11 was: address bars that were usable from the keyboard and mouse (no subdivision buttons for parts of the path), acceptable launch speed, and no extra "features" that were unnecessary (like it ignoring "use same view for all folders" when your directory happens to have MP3s in it - it'll switch to showing rating / bitrate etc.)
I believe all developers should use older versions of the software to see how usable they were in comparison to the modern "improvement".
Yes, because my apple hardware does not run properly with any other operating system. I would have switched to linux a while ago otherwise.
I guess Apple has realized that their hardware is so good that they don't have to worry about the software anymore.
I’m hoping they’ll wake up and fix this with the next release, but I’m not super optimistic.
We’ll see.
Disclaimer: I was one of the dozens who used a windows phone. The Nokia Lumia 920 was great, you can fight me.
Must have felt incredibly liberating, and maybe they got a little too into the whole idea of "fresh start"(s).
See also Windows RT.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're thinking of the lack of device OS upgrades: from WP6.5 to WP7, from WP7 to WP8, and from older WP8 devices to W10M. So no forward compat, but absolutely yes to backward compat.
For an app platform already a distant third place and struggling to attract developers, pissing off the few devs you do have TWICE was not a smart move.
And I disagree with your implicit claim that the WP7 & WP8 Silverlight -> Win10 UWP transition had no migration path. There was >= 90% source code similarity, bolstered if you had already adopted the Win8.1/WP8.1 "universal" project templates. And Microsoft provided tooling to ease the transition. Sometimes it was literally just s/Microsoft.Phone/Windows.UI/g.
Games were a different matter, I'll admit. XNA as an app platform had no direct replacement that was binary compatible with Win10 desktop, but even then, not only was DirectX already available from WP8.0, but Microsoft invested in MonoGame as an XNA replacement precisely because they knew the end of XNA would hit hard. (In fact it was the Windows Phone division that had essentially kept XNA on life support in its final years so that WP7 games would not break.)
Seems that's the standard now for .NET desktop dev. Every 2 or 3 years MS crank out a new XAML based framework that's not compatible with the previous and never gets completed before a new framework comes out.
I'm happy they're at least maintaining (to a limited extent) Windows Forms and WPF and updating their styles to fit with their fancy Fluent design.
But even that is a pretty sad state of affairs, since Windows Forms should be able to get that info from uxtheme (which Microsoft fumbled) and WPF should be able to get that info from the style distributed with the system-installed .NET framework (which Microsoft fumbled and now only exists for backcompat).
For the company with the best track record for backwards compatibility (with Windows), they sure suck at developing and evolving the same API for long.
Getting to Windows 11 today, they have ads in the Start menu. Not exactly appealing to the Apple crowd…
https://9to5mac.com/2025/12/08/ios-26-new-airpods-setting-ca...
In iOS 26, you can keep audio playing with your headphones by enabling the new "Keep Audio with Headphones" setting, found in Settings > General > AirPlay & Continuity, which stops audio from automatically switching to nearby devices like car stereos or Bluetooth speakers when you're already connected to your headphones.
This setting, which is off by default, ensures your music, calls, or podcasts stay with your AirPods or wireless headphones, preventing frustrating interruptions when you start your car or enter a room with another speaker.
On top of that, the OS feels more bloated and disorganized than ever, with something like six different UI frameworks all present in various spots on the OS; system settings are scattered across the Settings app (new) and various legacy panels like Control Panel and Network Connections.
What else... Microsoft now requires an online connection and Microsoft account to sign in to your PC; no more local-only accounts allowed.
I'm sure there's more I'm missing. It's not a pleasant operating system.
Recall is turned off by default and Copilot never nags you to use it (like Gemini on Chromebooks/Google Search/Google Docs does).
I completely agree with the UI frameworks thing though. They really need to remove the Control Panel.
... they really need to provide 100% coverage to all the same settings, THEN remove the control panel.
Pleasant compared to what? Older versions of windows? linux, or macs? This is the first positive review I've ever heard.
Another factor vs Mac (for me) is that if something to happen to my ThinkPad while I'm at a factory somewhere in rural Uzbekistan, there is always a store in the nearby city where I can grab a Windows laptop for like $400 and continue with the job, and/or have my machine serviced.
Windows has enormous userbase, and obviously you'll hear a high absolute number of criticisms, especially considering that those who actively dislike the OS for whatever reason will take take their time to bring their frustrations online, and those who are fine with it rarely comment about it.
Windows laptops vary in hardware quality and software support significantly, maybe that’s where issues arise for some people?
Linux obviously has its strengths, so I have a dual boot with the latest Fedora, but I almost always end up using W11, even for personal use.
> original version of Recall stored these in an unencrypted, insecure database.
Why do you bother mentioning it, given that's been long rectified and that particular version never made it to the production ring?
> six different UI frameworks all present in various spots on the OS
Windows has always been like this. It wasn't until Windows 11 that the Font dialog was upgraded from a Win 3.x look and feel.
> no more local-only accounts allowed.
Just false.
They addressed most issues in the 8.1 update, like a year later I think.
There was no start button. There are no screen edges to swipe in from. Hot corners are really hard to hit. I still can't believe somebody said "yes, good idea" to using that UI for Server 2012.
If that wasn't bad enough, the popup was a web view, meaning none of RDP's acceleration/client-side compositing was in play and I was greeted with a ~1fps slideshow.
It had decent bones though -- arguably a lot of its bad reputation was due to hardware/third party driver issues and people trying to run it on old hardware that just couldn't hack it. Windows 7 was well received and is basically the same thing with small improvements and some of the UX issues smoothed over (i.e. less annoying UAC)
But I see many references to it being called just "Aero", but some call it "Aero Glass" [1]
Does anyone know the truth?
[1] https://www.pcmag.com/archive/rip-aero-glass-windows-8-stick...
> "Rest in peace, Aero. I liked you, a lot. Still do. And I'll miss you," Thurrott writes
Yes, UAC could be considered as annoyance by some but it's no different than "sudo" on single-user Linux machines and we seemingly have no problems with that (I wish we'd move on past that because it is damn annoying and offers no security benefit).
Comparing Vista to modern macOS is insulting. Vista didn't have that level of jank and the UIs were actually quite good, consistent and with reasonable information density, unlike "System Settings" or shitty Catalyst apps.
It was wild to me when I was testing out if I wanted to move over to Linux as my full-time desktop OS how much it was asking for my password. And it didn't even have a mechanism to make it a little less painful such as requesting a short PIN (which I think is a fine option as long as a few incorrect PIN entries forces full password input).
On the other hand I'm not sure NOPASSWD would affect desktop environments - any desktop stuff goes via PolicyKit or whatever the latest systemd iteration is and I doubt it's smart enough to read Sudo's config (and there's an argument it shouldn't - if anything it should be the other way around, a system-wide generic "this is single-user machine, the only user is effectively root anyway" flag that both Sudo and Polkit should obey).
In both cases yes it's solvable, but I wish it became the default if there are no other interactive user accounts, or at least be easy to configure - if anything, by a simple "don't ask me again" on the permissions popup.
The UAC wasn't even the main problem, the overall performance of Vista was, everything was so much slower.
Windows 8 design wasn't bad per se, but they shipped the start screen when it lacks even the most basic features, so you'll return to legacy desktop the moment you want to do anything.
I don't think any of them are like Tahoe TBH.
I've blocked Apple's update servers via /etc/hosts so this monstrous thing doesn't sneak onto my machine in the middle of the night, still happily on Sequoia.
Vista ate every bit of RAM it could find, had severe driver issues and riddled with instabilities. It would not run on half the hardware at the time. I faintly remember a DX10 shitshow as well. And 8 hopelessly tried to apply Metro to the desktop and added a third (or was it forth?) settings panel. Also killed the Start menu.
If it wasn't for Apple Silicon and its stellar impact on battery life, I'd be gone. iOS 26 might make it happen anyway!
Resizing isn't great, but it's also deeply shitty in Win 11. I feel like window manager thought leadership has failed across the board, but the regression isn't that big of a deal in day to day usage, and is definitely not unique to Apple.
I mean Windows 10 wasn't great but I got used to the taskbar searching the web somehow and the dual config menus everywhere and so on. But 11 was just terrible.
macOS has its pain points but man oh man what a disaster Windows is.
I have had Linux on my personal desktop and laptop forever so that hasn't been an issue, only used Windows for work.
Not even close.
It's taken a few steps in the wrong direction, but nothing compaered to the user-hostility of Win8 (attempting to move users from 'real Windows' into locked-down dumbed-down touch-centric mobile-like app store hell), let alone Win11 (creating an e-waste mountain, then pushing AI slop into everything)
Are you just saying that because it has new glassy windows and is a resource hog? What is that different about Tahoe vs Sequoia?
- Apple Music requires one more click to pop the multiplayer, UI is worse and the click hitbox for the progress seek bar is too small
- Volume +/- now acts like a notification (top-right corner of screen and clickable). Horrible design decision (gets in the way of browser tabs)
- The "A > B > C" folder thingy at the bottom of Finder windows is gone, and the tabs' styling looks unsettling
- Weather (and Stocks, to a lesser degree) looks worse, lots of space wasted