Which comes first, the product or the marketing? | Hacker News Reader

Which comes first, the product or the marketing?

sethgodin.typepad.com

12 pointsbdfh4211 comments

I think that Seth is trying to say that there are important parts of marketing, such as market research, needs analysis, product definition, etc etc that he thinks should be done before the development of a product. It would have been nice if he had said so explicitly in his blog - he has a lot of readers that aren't trained in marketing.

Personally I'm dubious - Apple certainly never does marketing before product development. Even just looking at what happens in the company where I work, I notice that the innovations that really open up new markets and new revenue for us always come from the developpers. The marketing group just aren't aware enough of the technical limitations and opportunities that are out there - they either push for products that just can't be done with current tech, or they simply follow what their competitors are doing.

Of course, in a company that does marketing properly, which to my mind means including experienced engineers in the team, you could probably get some pretty good results - it's just that I've never worked in a company that does that.

Apple is an interesting example and I can see why you think that, but I think Apple does do marketing before they make the product. I don't have an inside source at Apple, but I am sure they are taking feedback from current products as well as researching competition when they are deciding what to make next.

I think they are constantly trying to listen to their customers, and then wow. Sometimes they even try and show customers what they really want even when they haven't asked for it. That is why I think they are successful. They do their research to find out the real problem and not just the symptom of the problem.

Some might not call that marketing but I do.

Apple does research and development with the customer in mind. That the bottom-line of good marketing.

Making something that isn't binary into a binary discussion is a great way to start controversy but it isn't very productive.

The truth is: Products Evolve, and marketing (which is a product in and of itself) evolves right along.

Marketing is nowadays seen as 'ramming stuff people don't need down their throat', whereas it used to mean to build a lasting relationship with your current and future customers.

Spending money on marketing a product that nobody needs or wants to me is wasted effort, but that's probably an idealistic point of view.

Still, it seems to me that marketing good products is an evolutionary process, where both the marketing and the product continue to evolve in lockstep.

Case in point: Sony Walkman -> product came first, then the marketing, subsequently we entered the digital age and now everybody and their brother is buying Ipods and other digital mp3 players.

There is an unbroken chain between the product development for the walkman (portable personal audio), initially tailoired to a single individuals needs all the way to the current generation of flash based personal audio products.

That same chain exists between the marketing efforts that have gone into all personal audio products.

Seth, the marketer says: "If someone comes to you with a 'great' product that just needs some marketing, the game is probably already over."

The hacker says: "If someone comes to you with a 'great' marketing plan that just needs a product, the game is probably already over."

Can we stop taking entire disciplines for granted, and acknowledge the fact that all ventures need to focus on both these aspects? (to varying degrees, of course)

There's an element of truth to what Seth said. Sometimes a great product is too early -- it won't be able to achieve product/market fit until years later. But the untruth in what Seth said is that sometimes you can't understand the market for a product until you put the product out there.

There hasn't been a Godin on the front page for a while, and even though this isn't the greatest thing he's written, this is the kind of post I could read every week or two from him. Thanks bdfh42, and thanks to everyone who has passed on the last several dozen posts from SG.

As Jon points out, the Prius was developed after the marketing thinking was done. Jones Soda, too. In fact, just about every successful product or service is the result of smart marketing thinking first, followed by a great product that makes the marketing story come true.

Ok, so yeah, lets call a spade a spade, he's talking about positioning.

Actively marketing your product is fine, but you still actually need to have a product or you may position yourself out of the market as Vaporware.